Comments on: Cyber Crooks Cooked the Books at Fla. Library http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/ In-depth security news and investigation Wed, 23 May 2012 01:40:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Skye Hussain http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-5599 Skye Hussain Wed, 05 May 2010 20:02:07 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-5599 My online job is freelance programming on rentacoder.com and i also maintain a couple of websites.'*- My online job is freelance programming on rentacoder.com and i also maintain a couple of websites.’*-

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]]> By: grourbLeque http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-5581 grourbLeque Tue, 04 May 2010 07:01:33 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-5581 [url=http://alternative-reviews-sassy-brit.zanos.pp.ua/]alternative reviews sassy brit[/url] [url=http://ffi-video.zanos.pp.ua/]ffi video[/url] [url=http://free-female-domination-clips.zanos.pp.ua/]free female domination clips[/url] [url=http://best-blow-job-clips.zanos.pp.ua/]best blow job clips[/url] [url=http://dvd-introduced.zanos.pp.ua/]dvd introduced[/url] [url=http://alternative-reviews-sassy-brit.zanos.pp.ua/]alternative reviews sassy brit[/url]
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]]> By: infosec_pro http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-1262 infosec_pro Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:53:19 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-1262 @JackRussell: "You need to put yourself in their mindset – if you wanted to get cash to someplace like the Ukraine in a way that it couldn’t be recalled, how would you do it? So any time you think up a countermeasure, you have to ask yourself what the bad guys would do to work around whatever barriers have been put in place?" Question is why it is necessary to quickly get cash to someplace far away in such a way that it cannot be recalled? If there are legitimate social or commercial purposes for such transactions they need to be distinguished from illegitimate criminal transactions. The problem with present systems is that they do not distinguish. Another approach might be to assert that any legitimate transfer should have a rescission mechanism built in, or that legitimate transfers require some minimum dwell time for the funds at various stages along the way. Imagine for example that instead of walking into a WU office in Lower Slobovia and walking out with cash the recipient has to walk into a bank branch and sign papers attesting to their rightful ownership before walking out with the cash. Now they have committed fraud in their own country, much more easily enforced and punished - especially if their local bank is on the hook to make good on the funds! Think about how things would be different if WU had skin in the game by being liable for fraudulent transfers! @JackRussell: “You need to put yourself in their mindset – if you wanted to get cash to someplace like the Ukraine in a way that it couldn’t be recalled, how would you do it? So any time you think up a countermeasure, you have to ask yourself what the bad guys would do to work around whatever barriers have been put in place?”

Question is why it is necessary to quickly get cash to someplace far away in such a way that it cannot be recalled?

If there are legitimate social or commercial purposes for such transactions they need to be distinguished from illegitimate criminal transactions. The problem with present systems is that they do not distinguish.

Another approach might be to assert that any legitimate transfer should have a rescission mechanism built in, or that legitimate transfers require some minimum dwell time for the funds at various stages along the way.

Imagine for example that instead of walking into a WU office in Lower Slobovia and walking out with cash the recipient has to walk into a bank branch and sign papers attesting to their rightful ownership before walking out with the cash. Now they have committed fraud in their own country, much more easily enforced and punished – especially if their local bank is on the hook to make good on the funds! Think about how things would be different if WU had skin in the game by being liable for fraudulent transfers!

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]]> By: infosec_pro http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-1259 infosec_pro Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:26:55 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-1259 @OP's inappropriately hidden comment about economies of scale: "Crime doesn’t increase productivity or reduce cost, so profit is always flat. That’s why criminals are dumb. Instead of using shared infrastructure, they are looting it. It’s a good thing that this can’t scale up. How big can the future of library plundering be?" This misses the point. It's not profitability from the perspective of the overall economic system that matters, it is profitability from the perspective of individual players that drives free enterprise. Criminals are the ultimate free marketers, unfettered by any legal constraints. Who cares about the future when they are making money in the present? That's the prime dynamic on Wall Street too. The perps scored almost $9,000 from Brittany, maybe a lot more from other mules. That's profit today, what's the time value of that money in the future? That's more important to the crooks than the potential for future profits from ripping off libraries and school districts! Incidentally the bank being able to reverse the transactions doesn't mean the money was recovered, the money Brittany wired through Western Union is gone - what is at issue is whose pocket it came out of. That would be a good question for Brian to ask and get answered, let's hope to see some reporting along those lines here.

@OP’s inappropriately hidden comment about economies of scale:

“Crime doesn’t increase productivity or reduce cost, so profit is always flat. That’s why criminals are dumb. Instead of using shared infrastructure, they are looting it. It’s a good thing that this can’t scale up. How big can the future of library plundering be?”

This misses the point. It’s not profitability from the perspective of the overall economic system that matters, it is profitability from the perspective of individual players that drives free enterprise.

Criminals are the ultimate free marketers, unfettered by any legal constraints. Who cares about the future when they are making money in the present? That’s the prime dynamic on Wall Street too.

The perps scored almost $9,000 from Brittany, maybe a lot more from other mules. That’s profit today, what’s the time value of that money in the future? That’s more important to the crooks than the potential for future profits from ripping off libraries and school districts!

Incidentally the bank being able to reverse the transactions doesn’t mean the money was recovered, the money Brittany wired through Western Union is gone – what is at issue is whose pocket it came out of. That would be a good question for Brian to ask and get answered, let’s hope to see some reporting along those lines here.

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]]> By: Timothy http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-1254 Timothy Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:37:55 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-1254 What about Ms. Carmine, the mule? She is just as much of a victim as the library, but she is being stuck with a negative balance by the bank. Why should she be the one to cover the loss? What about Ms. Carmine, the mule?
She is just as much of a victim as the library, but she is being stuck with a negative balance by the bank.

Why should she be the one to cover the loss?

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]]> By: The Dangers of Online Job Searching: Money Laundering and Reshipping Schemes « Fraud Prevention Unit http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-1236 The Dangers of Online Job Searching: Money Laundering and Reshipping Schemes « Fraud Prevention Unit Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:28:57 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-1236 [...] is the money being stolen? Usually, from businesses or public entities such as the Delray Beach Public Library whose networks have been compromised with malware (the link takes you to a fascinating rundown of [...] [...] is the money being stolen? Usually, from businesses or public entities such as the Delray Beach Public Library whose networks have been compromised with malware (the link takes you to a fascinating rundown of [...]

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]]> By: George Jenkins http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-1091 George Jenkins Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:31:46 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-1091 Excellent blog post. Thanks so much for writing about this scam and data breach. You have outlined well the issues and implications for businesses. Since consumers need to be reminded about how to recognize and avoid these scams, you or your readers may find my take on your blog post helpful: http://ivebeenmugged.typepad.com/my_weblog/2010/01/money-mules.html George Editor http://ivebeenmugged.typepad.com Excellent blog post. Thanks so much for writing about this scam and data breach. You have outlined well the issues and implications for businesses. Since consumers need to be reminded about how to recognize and avoid these scams, you or your readers may find my take on your blog post helpful:

http://ivebeenmugged.typepad.com/my_weblog/2010/01/money-mules.html

George
Editor
http://ivebeenmugged.typepad.com

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]]> By: John Corrigan http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-1081 John Corrigan Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:55:13 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-1081 It seems to me that WU and others could be required to screen for these transactions with a few simple questions. For example if the transaction is more than $500 a person could be asked: Is this transaction part of a work from home job found on the internet? Have you ever met the person you are sending money to? Depending on the answers to these simple questions they could be provided with an official handout that describes these frauds and how they can be liable for the money. It could also some practical steps they could take, such as talk to their banker. And, BTW you may also be targeted for ID theft. John Corrigan

It seems to me that WU and others could be required to screen for these transactions with a few simple questions. For example if the transaction is more than $500 a person could be asked: Is this transaction part of a work from home job found on the internet? Have you ever met the person you are sending money to? Depending on the answers to these simple questions they could be provided with an official handout that describes these frauds and how they can be liable for the money. It could also some practical steps they could take, such as talk to their banker. And, BTW you may also be targeted for ID theft.

John Corrigan

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]]> By: xanthos http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-968 xanthos Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:32:23 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-968 It is a people problem. Unless they want to be seen as willing participants in organized crime, Western Union and Moneygram need to better train their employees to spot potential fraud. I wonder if Brittany would have reconsidered if she had seen a poster warning her that by sending money that wasn't hers to someone she didn't know, she might be assisting organized crime?

It is a people problem. Unless they want to be seen as willing participants in organized crime, Western Union and Moneygram need to better train their employees to spot potential fraud.

I wonder if Brittany would have reconsidered if she had seen a poster warning her that by sending money that wasn’t hers to someone she didn’t know, she might be assisting organized crime?

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]]> By: Thom VanHorn http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/01/cyber-crooks-cooked-the-books-at-fla-library/comment-page-1/#comment-955 Thom VanHorn Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:20:38 +0000 http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=673#comment-955 People are out of work and desperate to make a quick buck. Despite the fact that simple common sense may have stymied this theft, the monetary impact of fraud will continue to grow. Companies must prioritize securing the sensitive information in their database. But just as importantly, individuals have to think before they do foolish things. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Thom VanHorn, Vice President, Global Marketing, Application Security, Inc.

People are out of work and desperate to make a quick buck. Despite the fact that simple common sense may have stymied this theft, the monetary impact of fraud will continue to grow. Companies must prioritize securing the sensitive information in their database. But just as importantly, individuals have to think before they do foolish things. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Thom VanHorn, Vice President, Global Marketing, Application Security, Inc.

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