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	<title>Comments on: Stopgap IE Fix, Safari Update Available</title>
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		<title>By: cialis</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-17456</link>
		<dc:creator>cialis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for providing really informative posts on your site. How can I find your RSS feed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for providing really informative posts on your site. How can I find your RSS feed?</p>
<div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-17456" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('17456', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-17456-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-17456" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('17456', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-17456-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: prairie_sailor</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-4339</link>
		<dc:creator>prairie_sailor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@ Scot Rabinow
As I’ve read over the security bulletins posted I seem to see a lot of references to buffer over run or unchecked buffer – would you say that this type of flaw covers most of the security flaws in software?  If so why not check every buffer?  I’m not convinced that just because a piece of code was produced by company X it is any better or any worse than code produced by company Y or group Z.  I think your insights on some of these issues could be informative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Scot Rabinow<br />
As I’ve read over the security bulletins posted I seem to see a lot of references to buffer over run or unchecked buffer – would you say that this type of flaw covers most of the security flaws in software?  If so why not check every buffer?  I’m not convinced that just because a piece of code was produced by company X it is any better or any worse than code produced by company Y or group Z.  I think your insights on some of these issues could be informative.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Higdon</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-4239</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Higdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 12:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=1760#comment-4239</guid>
		<description>Because when it was first released it had many problems and incompatibilities, and because about the only thing I use IE for is online banking (some banking sites are not fully functional with Firefox), I am still running IE 7.  When I tried to print from my bank site&#039;s bill pay page today, I got a &quot;script error&quot; window and was unable to print any part of any page.  I&#039;m guessing that&#039;s because of one or both &quot;Fix-its&quot; mentioned in Brian&#039;s post (I installed both).  Anyone else run into anything like this?  Maybe I should just go ahead and install IE 8...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because when it was first released it had many problems and incompatibilities, and because about the only thing I use IE for is online banking (some banking sites are not fully functional with Firefox), I am still running IE 7.  When I tried to print from my bank site&#8217;s bill pay page today, I got a &#8220;script error&#8221; window and was unable to print any part of any page.  I&#8217;m guessing that&#8217;s because of one or both &#8220;Fix-its&#8221; mentioned in Brian&#8217;s post (I installed both).  Anyone else run into anything like this?  Maybe I should just go ahead and install IE 8&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: wiredog</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-3908</link>
		<dc:creator>wiredog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A more in-depth discussion of the issue:
http://catb.org/jargon/html/0/numeral-zero.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A more in-depth discussion of the issue:<br />
<a href="http://catb.org/jargon/html/0/numeral-zero.html" rel="nofollow">http://catb.org/jargon/html/0/numeral-zero.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-3902</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=1760#comment-3902</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll take that example of Scott Rabinow&#039;s about fonts as sort of the summing up of where we seem to stand.  I won&#039;t even think about &quot;reading&#039;&#039; machines or &quot;translating&quot; devices. 

Suppose:..... a committee of Biblical scholars huddled over their laptops, heartbeats increasing with increased agitation....or, genetic researchers of just about any trait.....

Stock (...gasp!) market models......

...remember the Archimedes Palimpsest?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll take that example of Scott Rabinow&#8217;s about fonts as sort of the summing up of where we seem to stand.  I won&#8217;t even think about &#8220;reading&#8221; machines or &#8220;translating&#8221; devices. </p>
<p>Suppose:&#8230;.. a committee of Biblical scholars huddled over their laptops, heartbeats increasing with increased agitation&#8230;.or, genetic researchers of just about any trait&#8230;..</p>
<p>Stock (&#8230;gasp!) market models&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;remember the Archimedes Palimpsest?</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-3897</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&#039;Is there such a rush to get competitive products in the market that these new &quot;things&quot; aren&#039;t completely worked through?&#039;

Yes. See Mark Minasi&#039;s The Software Conspiracy. It&#039;s not a screed - it&#039;s a survey and set of interviews with leading software companies.

&#039;We&#039;re never going to see the end of these &quot;fixes&quot; are we?&#039;

Yes. But only if the mindset changes and only if the underlying OS is not such an easy open target. No browser code is ever perfect but flaws don&#039;t have to lead to eminent destruction.

Third generation exploits? Perhaps. But IT online is still in puberty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Is there such a rush to get competitive products in the market that these new &#8220;things&#8221; aren&#8217;t completely worked through?&#8217;</p>
<p>Yes. See Mark Minasi&#8217;s The Software Conspiracy. It&#8217;s not a screed &#8211; it&#8217;s a survey and set of interviews with leading software companies.</p>
<p>&#8216;We&#8217;re never going to see the end of these &#8220;fixes&#8221; are we?&#8217;</p>
<p>Yes. But only if the mindset changes and only if the underlying OS is not such an easy open target. No browser code is ever perfect but flaws don&#8217;t have to lead to eminent destruction.</p>
<p>Third generation exploits? Perhaps. But IT online is still in puberty.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-3896</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=1760#comment-3896</guid>
		<description>Getting everyone to use live CDs would be a good start. Then people could worry about how to create and use secure systems.

Safari 4.0.5: on Mac OS X at any rate it&#039;s turned into a RAM sucker, using up to 1 GB VM when accessing wave.google.com. And why do they archive and hide the previous version on disk when their code has no facility for restoring it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting everyone to use live CDs would be a good start. Then people could worry about how to create and use secure systems.</p>
<p>Safari 4.0.5: on Mac OS X at any rate it&#8217;s turned into a RAM sucker, using up to 1 GB VM when accessing wave.google.com. And why do they archive and hide the previous version on disk when their code has no facility for restoring it?</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Ritter</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-3894</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Ritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 06:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=1760#comment-3894</guid>
		<description>&quot;We’re never going to see the end of these “fixes” are we?&quot;

No.  We have a decade of experience which argues that no large software system will be completely fixed before it is replaced by something new that needs new fixing.  If the patch approach was working, things would be getting better, but In fact malware is demonstrably worse, both in quantity and power.  

Microsoft continues to escape blame for the malware problem, which seems odd since about 93 percent of browsing occurs under Windows.  Yes, Microsoft puts a lot of effort into patching user systems, but things are getting worse nevertheless.  The current approach has failed, and, yes, there are alternatives:  

* Microsoft could develop tools to certify a Windows installation as clean for use in on-line banking.

* Microsoft could develop a fast Windows re-install to over-write and clean up any infection.

* Microsoft could supply a new “live” CD on-line banking operating system (OS).

* Microsoft could support hardware system re-design to prevent infection. 

Most Individuals and small businesses seem either uninterested or scared to take action to secure their systems.  It is possible right now to run a free OS which stops most current malware.  Loading from CD or DVD automatically avoids existing Windows infections.  A laptop can even run without a hard drive, which then cannot be exposed or infected, while still working in reasonable comfort.  

For online browsing I use Puppy Linux loaded from DVD, and describe it in:   
http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/COMPSEC/PCBANSQA.HTM 
After the Puppy DVD is set up, most user time is spent in Firefox, not Linux.  My non-technical wife uses and likes it for banking, email and Facebook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We’re never going to see the end of these “fixes” are we?&#8221;</p>
<p>No.  We have a decade of experience which argues that no large software system will be completely fixed before it is replaced by something new that needs new fixing.  If the patch approach was working, things would be getting better, but In fact malware is demonstrably worse, both in quantity and power.  </p>
<p>Microsoft continues to escape blame for the malware problem, which seems odd since about 93 percent of browsing occurs under Windows.  Yes, Microsoft puts a lot of effort into patching user systems, but things are getting worse nevertheless.  The current approach has failed, and, yes, there are alternatives:  </p>
<p>* Microsoft could develop tools to certify a Windows installation as clean for use in on-line banking.</p>
<p>* Microsoft could develop a fast Windows re-install to over-write and clean up any infection.</p>
<p>* Microsoft could supply a new “live” CD on-line banking operating system (OS).</p>
<p>* Microsoft could support hardware system re-design to prevent infection. </p>
<p>Most Individuals and small businesses seem either uninterested or scared to take action to secure their systems.  It is possible right now to run a free OS which stops most current malware.  Loading from CD or DVD automatically avoids existing Windows infections.  A laptop can even run without a hard drive, which then cannot be exposed or infected, while still working in reasonable comfort.  </p>
<p>For online browsing I use Puppy Linux loaded from DVD, and describe it in:<br />
<a href="http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/COMPSEC/PCBANSQA.HTM" rel="nofollow">http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/COMPSEC/PCBANSQA.HTM</a><br />
After the Puppy DVD is set up, most user time is spent in Firefox, not Linux.  My non-technical wife uses and likes it for banking, email and Facebook.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Rabinow</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-3891</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Rabinow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 04:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=1760#comment-3891</guid>
		<description>Sisyphus,

Software is amazingly difficult to write &quot;cleanly&quot; and you can&#039;t absolutely prove that it&#039;s bug-free (at least for anything beyond the simplest code).

From my earliest coding days with Fortran on punch cards, the simplest bugs were ferociously difficult to fix, due to nothing other than the font that the code was presented in!  It&#039;s easier now since fonts are better, but try this on for size:

the capital letter for the character between N and P - &quot;O&quot; and the digit that represents a number smaller than 1 - &quot;0&quot;.

Here, it&#039;s relatively clear they are different characters, but imagine a poorly designed font produced by a crappy dot matrix printer where you literally could not tell them apart!

This is an almost trivial example, but scale it up to a program (or Operating System) with millions of lines of code, and there will be bugs, no ifs, ands or buts.  Significant effort and better tools can definitely reduce the numbers and severity, but it is literally impossible to completely eliminate bugs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color:#FFFFCC !important"><p>Sisyphus,</p>
<p>Software is amazingly difficult to write &#8220;cleanly&#8221; and you can&#8217;t absolutely prove that it&#8217;s bug-free (at least for anything beyond the simplest code).</p>
<p>From my earliest coding days with Fortran on punch cards, the simplest bugs were ferociously difficult to fix, due to nothing other than the font that the code was presented in!  It&#8217;s easier now since fonts are better, but try this on for size:</p>
<p>the capital letter for the character between N and P &#8211; &#8220;O&#8221; and the digit that represents a number smaller than 1 &#8211; &#8220;0&#8243;.</p>
<p>Here, it&#8217;s relatively clear they are different characters, but imagine a poorly designed font produced by a crappy dot matrix printer where you literally could not tell them apart!</p>
<p>This is an almost trivial example, but scale it up to a program (or Operating System) with millions of lines of code, and there will be bugs, no ifs, ands or buts.  Significant effort and better tools can definitely reduce the numbers and severity, but it is literally impossible to completely eliminate bugs.</p>
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		<title>By: Join Wealthy Affiliate Platinum&#8230; For Just $1</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/03/stopgap-ie-fix-safari-update-available/comment-page-1/#comment-3889</link>
		<dc:creator>Join Wealthy Affiliate Platinum&#8230; For Just $1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 03:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.krebsonsecurity.com/?p=1760#comment-3889</guid>
		<description>[...] Stopgap IE Fix, Safari Update Available &#8212; Krebs on Security [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Stopgap IE Fix, Safari Update Available &mdash; Krebs on Security [...]</p>
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