Comments on: Charting the Carnage from eBanking Fraud http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/ In-depth security news and investigation Wed, 23 May 2012 21:31:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Renan http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-21196 Renan Wed, 27 Apr 2011 03:05:23 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-21196 Take a look at the list of incidents on the map Brian linked to. Your estimate of the amount stolen is low by an order of magnitude. Take a look at the list of incidents on the map Brian linked to. Your estimate of the amount stolen is low by an order of magnitude.

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]]> By: Aaron Jacobson http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-5666 Aaron Jacobson Sat, 08 May 2010 20:43:13 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-5666 Yes. But overall, the total losses are still much much higher than the losses represented on the map. (This is because only a small fraction of victims are willing to go public with their stories.) The FBI estimates over $500 million in losses from commercial wire fraud in 2009 alone. Yes. But overall, the total losses are still much much higher than the losses represented on the map. (This is because only a small fraction of victims are willing to go public with their stories.) The FBI estimates over $500 million in losses from commercial wire fraud in 2009 alone.

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]]> By: Stephanie http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-5575 Stephanie Mon, 03 May 2010 20:17:26 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-5575 Really interesting to see this information presented visually. I'll be curious to see what patterns we can discern as Aaron continues to update the map. Backtrack "Mapping Bank Fraud" http://bit.ly/9YoCO7 Really interesting to see this information presented visually. I’ll be curious to see what patterns we can discern as Aaron continues to update the map.

Backtrack “Mapping Bank Fraud” http://bit.ly/9YoCO7

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]]> By: greg http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-5411 greg Tue, 27 Apr 2010 00:14:01 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-5411 I actually read about them all in Brian columns and elsewhere, the amounts listed in the map are the monies initially stolen. Fortunately, often 70% or more are recovered, either the money mules were slow or part of them were wired to another bank which flagged the transaction as suspicious and blocked it. As an example, Parkinson Construction is listed with 92000$ while "only" 18000$ were ultimately lost and possibly 10000-12000$ from them reached the perpetrators. A company inTexas was defrauded with 800.000 out of which 200.000 were not recovered. The mileage vary. Be it as it may, one or 10 millions getting in the wrong hands, those estimates makes little sense as long as we don't know how many groups are involved, I was trying to understand whether individuals in those gangs are solely motivated by the monies that gets in their hands (which I thought were not that much per capita - after substracting "expenses") to pass on the other side of the law. I actually read about them all in Brian columns and elsewhere, the amounts listed in the map are the monies initially stolen. Fortunately, often 70% or more are recovered, either the money mules were slow or part of them were wired to another bank which flagged the transaction as suspicious and blocked it. As an example, Parkinson Construction is listed with 92000$ while “only” 18000$ were ultimately lost and possibly 10000-12000$ from them reached the perpetrators. A company inTexas was defrauded with 800.000 out of which 200.000 were not recovered. The mileage vary.
Be it as it may, one or 10 millions getting in the wrong hands, those estimates makes little sense as long as we don’t know how many groups are involved, I was trying to understand whether individuals in those gangs are solely motivated by the monies that gets in their hands (which I thought were not that much per capita – after substracting “expenses”) to pass on the other side of the law.

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]]> By: Blair http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-5385 Blair Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:30:30 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-5385 Take a look at the list of incidents on the map Brian linked to. Your estimate of the amount stolen is low by an order of magnitude. At a quick glance, most of multiple 100s of thousands, and some are nine digit figures. Not sure where you got the idea that most of the money is recovered. Take a look at the list of incidents on the map Brian linked to. Your estimate of the amount stolen is low by an order of magnitude. At a quick glance, most of multiple 100s of thousands, and some are nine digit figures.

Not sure where you got the idea that most of the money is recovered.

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]]> By: greg http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-5370 greg Mon, 26 Apr 2010 10:29:30 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-5370 I don't want to sound cynical, but keeping in mind the bulk of the monies stolen is actually successfully returned, after subtracting money mule fees (probably at both ends of the transaction), MoneyGram/Western Union fees, licenses for expensive Zbots(!), fees to callservice.biz as reported by Brian and so on. it does not look like the perpetrators make so much. Assuming a gross estimate of 30 000$ per heist, over 43 cases it makes a million dollar "industry" but not a multi-million dollar one and I'm quite sure is pretty crowded there with multiple groups each having multiple members. With no "insider" knowledge I am wondering why they keep doing it, I would assume a honest job would allow them making just as much monies. Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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]]> By: Dark Energy http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-5357 Dark Energy Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:52:58 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-5357 I don't see any meaningful relationship between the time zone and the victims' locations. A criminal enterprise - just like any other business - is motivated by profit and therefore will engage in its activities wherever it can make money. I find it highly unlikely that a slight difference in time zone would act as a barrier. I don’t see any meaningful relationship between the time zone and the victims’ locations. A criminal enterprise – just like any other business – is motivated by profit and therefore will engage in its activities wherever it can make money. I find it highly unlikely that a slight difference in time zone would act as a barrier.

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]]> By: JCitizen http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-5352 JCitizen Sun, 25 Apr 2010 06:06:00 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-5352 @Solo Owl; There are plenty of online banks out in the sticks, believe me. There are too many smaller fish out in the desert to bother in those areas; however the mix of practical distrust, and gullible innocence makes it a toss up for criminals in this area. Actually the smaller banks are very interested in NOT hiring more employees, and so automated banking in any form is very attractive for cost purposes. Even with costs related to theft losses, it still pays to go online. @Solo Owl;

There are plenty of online banks out in the sticks, believe me.

There are too many smaller fish out in the desert to bother in those areas; however the mix of practical distrust, and gullible innocence makes it a toss up for criminals in this area.

Actually the smaller banks are very interested in NOT hiring more employees, and so automated banking in any form is very attractive for cost purposes. Even with costs related to theft losses, it still pays to go online.

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]]> By: Solo Owl http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-5351 Solo Owl Sun, 25 Apr 2010 02:33:41 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-5351 Isn't it possible that the smallest community banks could be more conservative? That they may not push online banking as much? That the initial startup costs (including training their own selves) of online banking may be seen as too high?

Isn’t it possible that the smallest community banks could be more conservative? That they may not push online banking as much? That the initial startup costs (including training their own selves) of online banking may be seen as too high?

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]]> By: Mark Ratledge http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/04/charting-the-carnage-from-ebanking-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-5341 Mark Ratledge Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:37:30 +0000 http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=2655#comment-5341 "Zero hits in WY UT MT SD ND … I guess paying the plumber with two bags of onions is difficult to subvert for the fraudsters in Russia..." Hey, watch it. I live in Montana :) We pay with fresh buffalo, and always remember to tip the Pony Express-FedEx rider. But there have been money mule cases here. I think rural state banks and residents could be more susceptible in some cases to these scams....

“Zero hits in WY UT MT SD ND … I guess paying the plumber with two bags of onions is difficult to subvert for the fraudsters in Russia…”

Hey, watch it. I live in Montana :) We pay with fresh buffalo, and always remember to tip the Pony Express-FedEx rider.

But there have been money mule cases here. I think rural state banks and residents could be more susceptible in some cases to these scams….

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