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	<title>Comments on: Police Arrest 178 in U.S.-Europe Raid on Credit Card &#8216;Cloning Labs&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: Ivan Nikolov</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-10302</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Nikolov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3616#comment-10302</guid>
		<description>http://iindatabase.com free bank identification number (bin) database - Issuer Identification Number (IIN). Search for the Visa or MasterCard issuer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://iindatabase.com" rel="nofollow">http://iindatabase.com</a> free bank identification number (bin) database &#8211; Issuer Identification Number (IIN). Search for the Visa or MasterCard issuer.</p>
<div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-10302" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('10302', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-10302-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">1</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-10302" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('10302', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-10302-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Derrick</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-7722</link>
		<dc:creator>Derrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There needs to better security on credit cards these days.... 120,000 stolen credit card numbers?! That&#039;s just ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There needs to better security on credit cards these days&#8230;. 120,000 stolen credit card numbers?! That&#8217;s just ridiculous.</p>
<div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-7722" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('7722', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-7722-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">1</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-7722" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('7722', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-7722-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Space Rogue</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-6900</link>
		<dc:creator>Space Rogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 15:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Some of the pictures posted by the Spanish there look like molds for ATM skimmers. Anyone else notice that?

- SR</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the pictures posted by the Spanish there look like molds for ATM skimmers. Anyone else notice that?</p>
<p>- SR</p>
<div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6900" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6900', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6900-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6900" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6900', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6900-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">1</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: emv x man</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-6893</link>
		<dc:creator>emv x man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 08:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I guess the time element is a balance; act too quickly and you only ever catch the lowest people in the hierarchy; too long and you allow the group to gather money that can be used to protect itself with...
If they got the leaders (or close) then two years is OK; if not, it&#039;s not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color:#FFFFCC !important"><p>I guess the time element is a balance; act too quickly and you only ever catch the lowest people in the hierarchy; too long and you allow the group to gather money that can be used to protect itself with&#8230;<br />
If they got the leaders (or close) then two years is OK; if not, it&#8217;s not.</p>
</div><div class="CommentRating">Well-loved. Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6893" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6893', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6893-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">4</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6893" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6893', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6893-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-6885</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the link to the Spanish report.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color:#FFFFCC !important"><p>Thanks for the link to the Spanish report.</p>
</div><div class="CommentRating">Well-loved. Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6885" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6885', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6885-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">4</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6885" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6885', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6885-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-6877</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 23:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting that with EMV smart chip widely deployed across Europe there are still enough fraud avenues available for magnetic stripe only cloning fraud (if that is all they were doing) which EMV was supposed to prevent.

Regarding the Mastercard electronic OTP card there are a number of factories producing these type of OTP cards for between $10-$15 each in the million order quantities. I have a few and to be honest the flexible screen technology isnt quite there yet. There are two methods they use for the display one is electro chromatic ink where the segment cells are liquid and a tiny electric charge darkens the electro chromic liquid to create the numbers. The second method is using e-ink where small dark particles are held in an opaque solution and then rise to the surface with a small charge. I am sure there will be lots of great applications for this technology but being embedded into payment cards is not one yet. While they have a usability security improvement over regular OTP tokens from point of view they wont be left unattended on office desks due to bulkiness the way normal tokens are the downside is that cards go into wallets which go into back pockets which get sat upon under all sorts of pressure and both screen technologies are sensitive to that sort of preassure.  So while the photos look great and very hi-tech I have been able to permanently damage my sample cards relatively easily. I am sure with time the technology will harden but they have a strong issue remaining within ISO standards of .78mm thick so the cards will work in ATM machines etc and it is a difficult job from an electronic manufacturing point of view.  
Of course this product doesnt prevent trojans like Zeus etc which MITB their way past OTP tokens so the online security benefits are relatively limited.

Another interesting version of these cards which has been around for awhile now is the Emue card technology (They were the first to develop this type of card token I believe and previously did trials with VISA in Europe) The Emue card has a full numeric keypad built into the card and does a type of challenge response OTP where the user enters a 6 digit code from the website into the card itself which generates a 6 digit response the user re-enters into their terminal. You can find their videos on YouTube.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color:#FFFFCC !important"><p>Interesting that with EMV smart chip widely deployed across Europe there are still enough fraud avenues available for magnetic stripe only cloning fraud (if that is all they were doing) which EMV was supposed to prevent.</p>
<p>Regarding the Mastercard electronic OTP card there are a number of factories producing these type of OTP cards for between $10-$15 each in the million order quantities. I have a few and to be honest the flexible screen technology isnt quite there yet. There are two methods they use for the display one is electro chromatic ink where the segment cells are liquid and a tiny electric charge darkens the electro chromic liquid to create the numbers. The second method is using e-ink where small dark particles are held in an opaque solution and then rise to the surface with a small charge. I am sure there will be lots of great applications for this technology but being embedded into payment cards is not one yet. While they have a usability security improvement over regular OTP tokens from point of view they wont be left unattended on office desks due to bulkiness the way normal tokens are the downside is that cards go into wallets which go into back pockets which get sat upon under all sorts of pressure and both screen technologies are sensitive to that sort of preassure.  So while the photos look great and very hi-tech I have been able to permanently damage my sample cards relatively easily. I am sure with time the technology will harden but they have a strong issue remaining within ISO standards of .78mm thick so the cards will work in ATM machines etc and it is a difficult job from an electronic manufacturing point of view.<br />
Of course this product doesnt prevent trojans like Zeus etc which MITB their way past OTP tokens so the online security benefits are relatively limited.</p>
<p>Another interesting version of these cards which has been around for awhile now is the Emue card technology (They were the first to develop this type of card token I believe and previously did trials with VISA in Europe) The Emue card has a full numeric keypad built into the card and does a type of challenge response OTP where the user enters a 6 digit code from the website into the card itself which generates a 6 digit response the user re-enters into their terminal. You can find their videos on YouTube.</p>
</div><div class="CommentRating">Well-loved. Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6877" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6877', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6877-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">10</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6877" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6877', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6877-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JCitizen</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-6873</link>
		<dc:creator>JCitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great article! As usual Brian! Just posting to track this discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color:#FFFFCC !important"><p>Great article! As usual Brian! Just posting to track this discussion.</p>
</div><div class="CommentRating">Well-loved. Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6873" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6873', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6873-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">5</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6873" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6873', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6873-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: TE</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-6871</link>
		<dc:creator>TE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>OK, great news, but I can&#039;t help feeling that it&#039;s only the tip of the iceberg.

The fact that the investigation took TWO YEARS, while the network was allowed to operate so the police could gather evidence is very troubling. The current way that we do law enforcement is simply inadequate for this task. We need a way to take down these criminals much faster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color:#FFFFCC !important"><p>OK, great news, but I can&#8217;t help feeling that it&#8217;s only the tip of the iceberg.</p>
<p>The fact that the investigation took TWO YEARS, while the network was allowed to operate so the police could gather evidence is very troubling. The current way that we do law enforcement is simply inadequate for this task. We need a way to take down these criminals much faster.</p>
</div><div class="CommentRating">Well-loved. Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6871" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6871', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6871-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">9</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6871" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6871', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6871-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">1</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: emv x man</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-6870</link>
		<dc:creator>emv x man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@KFritz
Thank you for the additional info... indeed - very interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@KFritz<br />
Thank you for the additional info&#8230; indeed &#8211; very interesting.</p>
<div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6870" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6870', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6870-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">2</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6870" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6870', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6870-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">1</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: qka</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/06/police-arrest-178-in-u-s-europe-raid-on-credit-cards-cloning-labs/comment-page-1/#comment-6862</link>
		<dc:creator>qka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Google translation is done with software. It is usually clumsy in any language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="background-color:#FFFFCC !important"><p>Google translation is done with software. It is usually clumsy in any language.</p>
</div><div class="CommentRating">Well-loved. Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6862" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6862', 'add', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6862-up" style="font-size:14px; color:#009933;">12</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6862" src="http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_16_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6862', 'subtract', 'krebsonsecurity.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_16_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6862-down" style="font-size:14px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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