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	<title>Comments on: Top Apps Largely Forgo Windows Security Protections</title>
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	<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/</link>
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		<title>By: TJ</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7458</link>
		<dc:creator>TJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 11:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, this is either AV FUD or just your typical false positive. 

In fact,  the Brothersoft link specifically states &quot;Sandboxie 3.46 - Tested by 3 antivirus solutions; this software does not contain any kind of trojans, spyware or viruses.&quot;

But, just curiosity&#039;s sake, using a virtual machine with PC Armor (which tracks and can completely reverse ALL installs), I traveled to the Brothersoft link in question and downloaded Sandboxie 3.46.  According to PC Armor,  no drive-by install was attempted or succeeded.  Then, I uploaded the Sandboxie file to VirusTotal.com, where it got a clean bill of health from all 42 anti-malware products. See link below: 

http://www.virustotal.com/analisis/8e6cace5c716902733adc1508e5898cff36136709d3093089c2c6c5d52332ec6-1278837896]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, this is either AV FUD or just your typical false positive. </p>
<p>In fact,  the Brothersoft link specifically states &#8220;Sandboxie 3.46 &#8211; Tested by 3 antivirus solutions; this software does not contain any kind of trojans, spyware or viruses.&#8221;</p>
<p>But, just curiosity&#8217;s sake, using a virtual machine with PC Armor (which tracks and can completely reverse ALL installs), I traveled to the Brothersoft link in question and downloaded Sandboxie 3.46.  According to PC Armor,  no drive-by install was attempted or succeeded.  Then, I uploaded the Sandboxie file to VirusTotal.com, where it got a clean bill of health from all 42 anti-malware products. See link below: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.virustotal.com/analisis/8e6cace5c716902733adc1508e5898cff36136709d3093089c2c6c5d52332ec6-1278837896" rel="nofollow">http://www.virustotal.com/analisis/8e6cace5c716902733adc1508e5898cff36136709d3093089c2c6c5d52332ec6-1278837896</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7373</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most of the things you mention have already been done.  Write XOR Execute is supported *in hardware* for a lot of non-i386 architectures.  Look at the work OpenBSD is doing if you want to see compiler improvements (and library improvements, like malloc() ) aimed at defeating buffer overruns.

These improvements just have to filter out to the wider software community.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the things you mention have already been done.  Write XOR Execute is supported *in hardware* for a lot of non-i386 architectures.  Look at the work OpenBSD is doing if you want to see compiler improvements (and library improvements, like malloc() ) aimed at defeating buffer overruns.</p>
<p>These improvements just have to filter out to the wider software community.</p>
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		<title>By: Louis</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7356</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 19:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am quite surprised to see there is little to no interest in Integrity Levels of Vista, and now Win7...

IL&#039;s could also provide security by removing the ability to interact with important files or configuration items, by placing the browser at the lowest of integrity levels. I&#039;ve only covered the basics here, because IL&#039;s can go much further...

Microsoft is not promoting this technology to any degree, and as I hear, Firefox is a pain to make it work at low level.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am quite surprised to see there is little to no interest in Integrity Levels of Vista, and now Win7&#8230;</p>
<p>IL&#8217;s could also provide security by removing the ability to interact with important files or configuration items, by placing the browser at the lowest of integrity levels. I&#8217;ve only covered the basics here, because IL&#8217;s can go much further&#8230;</p>
<p>Microsoft is not promoting this technology to any degree, and as I hear, Firefox is a pain to make it work at low level.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Brewster</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7350</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Brewster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 22:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What, no GIMP, Photoshop, or Paint.NET? :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, no GIMP, Photoshop, or Paint.NET? <img src='http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: BrianKrebs</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7349</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianKrebs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 22:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nope. Haven&#039;t receive a response from any of the program  makers defending their status.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope. Haven&#8217;t receive a response from any of the program  makers defending their status.</p>
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		<title>By: KFritz</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7348</link>
		<dc:creator>KFritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 22:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@BK: Did any of the developers give a reason NOT to use the available MS tools? Especially the ones w/ otherwise good reps? 

Google is clearly attentive! Now if they can just get the hang  of dealing w/ non-US govts!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@BK: Did any of the developers give a reason NOT to use the available MS tools? Especially the ones w/ otherwise good reps? </p>
<p>Google is clearly attentive! Now if they can just get the hang  of dealing w/ non-US govts!</p>
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		<title>By: WarpKat</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7347</link>
		<dc:creator>WarpKat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 21:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yanno...this all boils down to if Windows was actually secure by design.

It&#039;s not.  They&#039;ve hacked it.  Microsoft has literally hacked this thing into a hodge-podge of nothing but &quot;we have security, but it&#039;s optional&quot; as is clearly the case.

The problem is that it&#039;s too damn easy for someone to exploit a privileged account in Windows because it&#039;s originally a single-user OS, not a multi-user OS.

It&#039;s a target - a big red target.  Nothing will ever change that until Microsoft takes the Windows design back to the drawing board and is open to risk breaking backwards compatibility with legacy applications by forcing them to secure themselves instead of making it an &quot;option,&quot; which is what it should do.

Look at what they did with my favorite games that only ran in XP or even 98 - can&#039;t run Neverwinter Nights in Vista reliably, nor can I use the expansions.

It appears the priorities at MS are somewhat...backwards?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yanno&#8230;this all boils down to if Windows was actually secure by design.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not.  They&#8217;ve hacked it.  Microsoft has literally hacked this thing into a hodge-podge of nothing but &#8220;we have security, but it&#8217;s optional&#8221; as is clearly the case.</p>
<p>The problem is that it&#8217;s too damn easy for someone to exploit a privileged account in Windows because it&#8217;s originally a single-user OS, not a multi-user OS.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a target &#8211; a big red target.  Nothing will ever change that until Microsoft takes the Windows design back to the drawing board and is open to risk breaking backwards compatibility with legacy applications by forcing them to secure themselves instead of making it an &#8220;option,&#8221; which is what it should do.</p>
<p>Look at what they did with my favorite games that only ran in XP or even 98 &#8211; can&#8217;t run Neverwinter Nights in Vista reliably, nor can I use the expansions.</p>
<p>It appears the priorities at MS are somewhat&#8230;backwards?</p>
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		<title>By: jrj</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7344</link>
		<dc:creator>jrj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 13:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From Microsoft&#039;s site:

•“Opt-In” – In this mode of operation DEP is enabled only for processes that explicitly opt-in to DEP. This is the default configuration for client operating systems such as Windows XP and Windows Vista.
•“Opt-Out” – In this mode of operation DEP is enabled by default for all processes except those that explicitly opt-out of DEP. This is the default configuration for server operating systems such as Windows Server 2003 and Windows Server 2008.
•“Always On” – In this mode of operation DEP is always enabled for all processes regardless of whether the program is compatible with DEP or not.
•“Always Off” – In this mode of operation DEP is always disabled for all processes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Microsoft&#8217;s site:</p>
<p>•“Opt-In” – In this mode of operation DEP is enabled only for processes that explicitly opt-in to DEP. This is the default configuration for client operating systems such as Windows XP and Windows Vista.<br />
•“Opt-Out” – In this mode of operation DEP is enabled by default for all processes except those that explicitly opt-out of DEP. This is the default configuration for server operating systems such as Windows Server 2003 and Windows Server 2008.<br />
•“Always On” – In this mode of operation DEP is always enabled for all processes regardless of whether the program is compatible with DEP or not.<br />
•“Always Off” – In this mode of operation DEP is always disabled for all processes.</p>
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		<title>By: jrj</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7343</link>
		<dc:creator>jrj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 13:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Mele - Thanks for your detailed analysis.  On Win 7 you can use the command line utility BCDEDIT to modify the boot parameters to set DEP to always on, but it seems to me that if you set DEP to Opt Out in the control panel  and don&#039;t specify any exceptions, then you are essentially running as &quot;always on&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mele &#8211; Thanks for your detailed analysis.  On Win 7 you can use the command line utility BCDEDIT to modify the boot parameters to set DEP to always on, but it seems to me that if you set DEP to Opt Out in the control panel  and don&#8217;t specify any exceptions, then you are essentially running as &#8220;always on&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mele</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2010/07/top-apps-largely-forgo-windows-security-protections/comment-page-1/#comment-7341</link>
		<dc:creator>Mele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 13:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=3868#comment-7341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jrj, yes, you can turn on hardware (meaning CPU supports it) DEP  in Performance Options in System Properties. You have 3 options, Opt In (default), Opt Out and Always but the last one is not available in Performance Options. If you set it to Opt Out and then notice that a program is opted out and you change it so that program is opted in you will likely not be able to start the program as you will get a popup from DEP saying it has shut the program down (before it even started) to protect the computer or the program will start and run for a bit and then you get the DEP popup stating that Windows has shut the program down to protect the system.  You will then have no choice, if you want to use that program but to put it back in the Opt Out list.  IE6 and Word 2002 were opted out of DEP for years and I tried to turn on DEP for them several different times. DEP would popup that message when I would try to start them. So, I had no choice but to opt those two programs (and Firefox) out of DEP for a long time. Then Mozilla made Fx compliant and eventually Microsoft did the same for Word 2002 and IE6.

You cannot just turn on DEP for all programs (except by forcing Always On by changing the boot.ini).  Each program has to be made compatible by its developer.  What is really interesting is if you are brave enough to set DEP to Always On. I don&#039;t know anyone who has been able to run XP for more than a few minutes with Hardware DEP set to Always On which means ALL processes always run with DEP applied.  Plus, the only options for DEP in Performance Options in System Properties is either Opt In or Opt Out. You CANNOT turn on Always On there. You have to do it manually by altering the boot.ini file.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jrj, yes, you can turn on hardware (meaning CPU supports it) DEP  in Performance Options in System Properties. You have 3 options, Opt In (default), Opt Out and Always but the last one is not available in Performance Options. If you set it to Opt Out and then notice that a program is opted out and you change it so that program is opted in you will likely not be able to start the program as you will get a popup from DEP saying it has shut the program down (before it even started) to protect the computer or the program will start and run for a bit and then you get the DEP popup stating that Windows has shut the program down to protect the system.  You will then have no choice, if you want to use that program but to put it back in the Opt Out list.  IE6 and Word 2002 were opted out of DEP for years and I tried to turn on DEP for them several different times. DEP would popup that message when I would try to start them. So, I had no choice but to opt those two programs (and Firefox) out of DEP for a long time. Then Mozilla made Fx compliant and eventually Microsoft did the same for Word 2002 and IE6.</p>
<p>You cannot just turn on DEP for all programs (except by forcing Always On by changing the boot.ini).  Each program has to be made compatible by its developer.  What is really interesting is if you are brave enough to set DEP to Always On. I don&#8217;t know anyone who has been able to run XP for more than a few minutes with Hardware DEP set to Always On which means ALL processes always run with DEP applied.  Plus, the only options for DEP in Performance Options in System Properties is either Opt In or Opt Out. You CANNOT turn on Always On there. You have to do it manually by altering the boot.ini file.</p>
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