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	<title>Comments on: ATM Skimmers Get Wafer Thin</title>
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	<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/</link>
	<description>In-depth security news and investigation</description>
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		<title>By: European</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-94023</link>
		<dc:creator>European</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-94023</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As European, I can confirm this.

In some European countries we have chip-pin  and magnetic stripe on the same card (because not all European countries have already implemented the chip system. So we need both systems if we travel between countries)

Some months ago, I saw a person who failed twice putting his pin in the POS of the supermarket. In order to avoid the inactivation of the card (and obviously to pay the shopping) the &quot;check out operator&quot; finally used the magnetic stripe of the card and the customer signed the ticket.

The last system I´ve read about is the contactless cards. But, with this cards, IF you pay anything less than €20 (about $24) you only have to put the card close to the  POS terminal ¡¡¡But you don´t need to put your pin!!!. Personally, I think this system is a backwards step.

Regards]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As European, I can confirm this.</p>
<p>In some European countries we have chip-pin  and magnetic stripe on the same card (because not all European countries have already implemented the chip system. So we need both systems if we travel between countries)</p>
<p>Some months ago, I saw a person who failed twice putting his pin in the POS of the supermarket. In order to avoid the inactivation of the card (and obviously to pay the shopping) the &#8220;check out operator&#8221; finally used the magnetic stripe of the card and the customer signed the ticket.</p>
<p>The last system I´ve read about is the contactless cards. But, with this cards, IF you pay anything less than €20 (about $24) you only have to put the card close to the  POS terminal ¡¡¡But you don´t need to put your pin!!!. Personally, I think this system is a backwards step.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-93053</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-93053</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not to smart of a card is it]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to smart of a card is it</p>
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		<title>By: JCitizen</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-92412</link>
		<dc:creator>JCitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 03:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-92412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I still say Passwindow combined with Magneprint is the cheap reliable way to go; but I like what you write about RF tech done right.

The beautiful thing about Magneprint is it actually takes those weaknesses you list about the old technology and turn it into a strength using mathematical/geometric stoichiometry. It would be impossible to replay a swipe or copy a card with this technology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still say Passwindow combined with Magneprint is the cheap reliable way to go; but I like what you write about RF tech done right.</p>
<p>The beautiful thing about Magneprint is it actually takes those weaknesses you list about the old technology and turn it into a strength using mathematical/geometric stoichiometry. It would be impossible to replay a swipe or copy a card with this technology.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JCitizen</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-92410</link>
		<dc:creator>JCitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 03:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-92410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reading your instructions John D, reminded me of how I used to obliterate old credit cards before cutting them up - in the old days before shredders were available. That is probably a good practice even if you use a shredder!!

Thanks for that post!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading your instructions John D, reminded me of how I used to obliterate old credit cards before cutting them up &#8211; in the old days before shredders were available. That is probably a good practice even if you use a shredder!!</p>
<p>Thanks for that post!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John D</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-92406</link>
		<dc:creator>John D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 02:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-92406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris, contactless cards, either RFID or NFC, solve a different problem: that of dirty readers or dirty cards.  Radio has no electrical contacts to corrode, so the readers are much more durable, and cost less to maintain, and radio doesn&#039;t require mechanical alignment like electrical contacts do.  But NFC by itself does nothing to improve security, and some of the current implementations actually weaken it tremendously by transmitting raw card data in the clear.

Part of the most effective solution is strong asymmetric encryption performed on the card that only the issuing bank can decrypt (public key crypto.)  EMV is kind of close, but because it tried to be all things to all people, the protocol ended up with some flaws. But until the consumer&#039;s cards start coming with their own built in PIN pads and displays, there will always be the risk of fraudulent card readers and skimmers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, contactless cards, either RFID or NFC, solve a different problem: that of dirty readers or dirty cards.  Radio has no electrical contacts to corrode, so the readers are much more durable, and cost less to maintain, and radio doesn&#8217;t require mechanical alignment like electrical contacts do.  But NFC by itself does nothing to improve security, and some of the current implementations actually weaken it tremendously by transmitting raw card data in the clear.</p>
<p>Part of the most effective solution is strong asymmetric encryption performed on the card that only the issuing bank can decrypt (public key crypto.)  EMV is kind of close, but because it tried to be all things to all people, the protocol ended up with some flaws. But until the consumer&#8217;s cards start coming with their own built in PIN pads and displays, there will always be the risk of fraudulent card readers and skimmers.</p>
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		<title>By: Kannan</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-92405</link>
		<dc:creator>Kannan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2012 02:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-92405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All these simply work on the basic premise that it is after all man made technology. So, when the technology advances to make things more efficient and convenient, it also paves way for problems. Whatever checks and controls put in place, the hackers come back with newer ways to overcome those.

That means that continuous monitoring and acting on triggers and alarms is the key to keep these frauds away. It is not some thing banks can fix it once, they need to have a highly active and capable security monitoring team and should not ignore vulnerability or exploit reports that comes out from ethical hackers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All these simply work on the basic premise that it is after all man made technology. So, when the technology advances to make things more efficient and convenient, it also paves way for problems. Whatever checks and controls put in place, the hackers come back with newer ways to overcome those.</p>
<p>That means that continuous monitoring and acting on triggers and alarms is the key to keep these frauds away. It is not some thing banks can fix it once, they need to have a highly active and capable security monitoring team and should not ignore vulnerability or exploit reports that comes out from ethical hackers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John D</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-92323</link>
		<dc:creator>John D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-92323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, if you &quot;erase&quot; the mag stripe on a smart card, it cannot be skimmed.  But erasing it may be difficult, depending on the technology.  Simply rubbing a magnet on the stripe is not a guarantee that you will successfully erase it.  And just making the signal &quot;too weak&quot; with a magnet might mean a real ATM would reject it for not being 100% perfect, but there might still be enough signal left for a skimmer to pick up.

A sure-fire way I use for lab testing of mag stripe card readers is to scratch off the mag stripe in an area big enough to cause a read fault.  I normally scratch off only one track at a time in order to test that readers and software properly handle just the unscratched track, but for your purposes you want to render all the tracks unreadable.

Here&#039;s how to do it:  hold the card so you are facing the mag stripe, with the mag stripe nearest the top edge.  Scratch off about 1/4&quot; (7mm) of the stripe, starting from about 1/8&quot; (3mm) from the right hand edge of the card to about 3/8&quot; (10mm) from the right hand edge.  Scratch all the way through the magnetic media down to the base plastic of the card (you will see a color change), and clear the entire area from the top of the stripe to the bottom of the stripe.

No skimmer in the world will recover your account number from that.  If you also want to ensure they can&#039;t even recover partial data, scratch off a wider area.  Removing a full inch (25mm) will prevent even a partial success.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, if you &#8220;erase&#8221; the mag stripe on a smart card, it cannot be skimmed.  But erasing it may be difficult, depending on the technology.  Simply rubbing a magnet on the stripe is not a guarantee that you will successfully erase it.  And just making the signal &#8220;too weak&#8221; with a magnet might mean a real ATM would reject it for not being 100% perfect, but there might still be enough signal left for a skimmer to pick up.</p>
<p>A sure-fire way I use for lab testing of mag stripe card readers is to scratch off the mag stripe in an area big enough to cause a read fault.  I normally scratch off only one track at a time in order to test that readers and software properly handle just the unscratched track, but for your purposes you want to render all the tracks unreadable.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s how to do it:  hold the card so you are facing the mag stripe, with the mag stripe nearest the top edge.  Scratch off about 1/4&#8243; (7mm) of the stripe, starting from about 1/8&#8243; (3mm) from the right hand edge of the card to about 3/8&#8243; (10mm) from the right hand edge.  Scratch all the way through the magnetic media down to the base plastic of the card (you will see a color change), and clear the entire area from the top of the stripe to the bottom of the stripe.</p>
<p>No skimmer in the world will recover your account number from that.  If you also want to ensure they can&#8217;t even recover partial data, scratch off a wider area.  Removing a full inch (25mm) will prevent even a partial success.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-92242</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 05:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-92242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Because some of us operational security folk like to be aware of them because we have a pocket full of plastic?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because some of us operational security folk like to be aware of them because we have a pocket full of plastic?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-92215</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-92215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These ATM skimmer posts are of little value to us, as it is a cat and mouse game and the average ATM user wouldn&#039;t notice a compromised system even if they knew what to look for.

More helpful would be information (statistics) on what ATM&#039;s are mostly likely to be compromised, and general security best practices consumers can take to avoid the machines.

Again, showing photos of skimmers is interesting to a very small subset of readers, and useless info to the rest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These ATM skimmer posts are of little value to us, as it is a cat and mouse game and the average ATM user wouldn&#8217;t notice a compromised system even if they knew what to look for.</p>
<p>More helpful would be information (statistics) on what ATM&#8217;s are mostly likely to be compromised, and general security best practices consumers can take to avoid the machines.</p>
<p>Again, showing photos of skimmers is interesting to a very small subset of readers, and useless info to the rest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/07/atm-skimmers-get-wafer-thin/comment-page-1/#comment-92211</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 20:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=16111#comment-92211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It really depends on the technology behind the chip card. There are a few different types out there. The most promising one I&#039;ve seen is from First Data/Star. There EVM cards in the original designee was that every time you slide your card the chip create a one time card number that can only be used for this one transaction. The card network would know how to decrypt this number and assign the transaction to you. No decryption would be done at the terminal. The plan was also to do away with the mag strip. This was announced late 2010. Since the plan has change a great deal do to merchant complaints about cost of buying EVM card readers.

Now you will have the same deal as Europe with mag strips and EVM chips for many years while there is a slow integration  of card readers that can read both. The current plan is by 2015 if a merchant has not upgraded to an EVM capable reader that if there is a fraudulent transaction that originated from their terminal the will  have to refund the transaction. So your are probably looking at some time in the next decade before there are no more mag strip cards. By that time EVM will most likely have the same problems as current debit cards.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It really depends on the technology behind the chip card. There are a few different types out there. The most promising one I&#8217;ve seen is from First Data/Star. There EVM cards in the original designee was that every time you slide your card the chip create a one time card number that can only be used for this one transaction. The card network would know how to decrypt this number and assign the transaction to you. No decryption would be done at the terminal. The plan was also to do away with the mag strip. This was announced late 2010. Since the plan has change a great deal do to merchant complaints about cost of buying EVM card readers.</p>
<p>Now you will have the same deal as Europe with mag strips and EVM chips for many years while there is a slow integration  of card readers that can read both. The current plan is by 2015 if a merchant has not upgraded to an EVM capable reader that if there is a fraudulent transaction that originated from their terminal the will  have to refund the transaction. So your are probably looking at some time in the next decade before there are no more mag strip cards. By that time EVM will most likely have the same problems as current debit cards.</p>
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