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	<title>Comments on: Crimeware Author Funds Exploit Buying Spree</title>
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	<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/</link>
	<description>In-depth security news and investigation</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:14:17 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: voksalna</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-141471</link>
		<dc:creator>voksalna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-141471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I used to use Chrome *only* for Brian&#039;s site. I have ceased installing any google software in my machine though. I found a smaller offshoot of mozilla to use (still, only for posting on Brian&#039;s site). Maybe this is to make Brian feel special enough to have his own browser? :P I think Opera may also work. I still advocate using something that has strong privacy, cookie controlling and script controlling plugins (or build-ins) to visit anywhere else. I am minimizing an attack footprint by using this only for this site (maybe one other with the same problems). The same might also be accomplished by having two installations of the same browser, but I find this difficult to maintain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to use Chrome *only* for Brian&#8217;s site. I have ceased installing any google software in my machine though. I found a smaller offshoot of mozilla to use (still, only for posting on Brian&#8217;s site). Maybe this is to make Brian feel special enough to have his own browser? <img src='http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  I think Opera may also work. I still advocate using something that has strong privacy, cookie controlling and script controlling plugins (or build-ins) to visit anywhere else. I am minimizing an attack footprint by using this only for this site (maybe one other with the same problems). The same might also be accomplished by having two installations of the same browser, but I find this difficult to maintain.</p>
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		<title>By: JCitizen</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-141234</link>
		<dc:creator>JCitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 02:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-141234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just curious; have you tried or are you using Chrome/Mozilla; or will your distro run those browsers. I&#039;m ready to try Mozilla on Puppy, but I haven&#039;t reached that project yet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious; have you tried or are you using Chrome/Mozilla; or will your distro run those browsers. I&#8217;m ready to try Mozilla on Puppy, but I haven&#8217;t reached that project yet.</p>
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		<title>By: voksalna</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-140581</link>
		<dc:creator>voksalna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-140581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[His ads all use flash; I often do enable it for his site alone if only to expand the &#039;not useful&#039; comments when they show up. Putting aside security issues alone, if you&#039;ve ever used the flash plugin viewer in Linux you will know it tends to go &quot;out of control&quot;. I think it may be my privacy plugins anyway, not noscript. I am not trying to deprive Mr Brian Krebs of his ad revenue. :) I&#039;ve repeatedly said if he advocates for people to use security methods, his site should reflect the use of those methods. Flat image ads, for instance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>His ads all use flash; I often do enable it for his site alone if only to expand the &#8216;not useful&#8217; comments when they show up. Putting aside security issues alone, if you&#8217;ve ever used the flash plugin viewer in Linux you will know it tends to go &#8220;out of control&#8221;. I think it may be my privacy plugins anyway, not noscript. I am not trying to deprive Mr Brian Krebs of his ad revenue. <img src='http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;ve repeatedly said if he advocates for people to use security methods, his site should reflect the use of those methods. Flat image ads, for instance.</p>
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		<title>By: JCitizen</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-140540</link>
		<dc:creator>JCitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-140540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Honorable mention on the Register for Brian&#039;s article - KUDOs!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/10/cool_exploit_kit/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honorable mention on the Register for Brian&#8217;s article &#8211; KUDOs!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/10/cool_exploit_kit/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/10/cool_exploit_kit/</a></p>
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		<title>By: JCitizen</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-140539</link>
		<dc:creator>JCitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-140539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe it would help if you set your controls for NoScript and other privacy plugins, to off. Brian&#039;s trying to make a living here! I always set all of that and AdBlock Plus(or etc, for Chrome) to the off mode, by URL, while visiting his site.

With Linux you have little to fear - so far I&#039;ve not been attacked by any adds/links here at KOS, and I&#039;m running Windows.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it would help if you set your controls for NoScript and other privacy plugins, to off. Brian&#8217;s trying to make a living here! I always set all of that and AdBlock Plus(or etc, for Chrome) to the off mode, by URL, while visiting his site.</p>
<p>With Linux you have little to fear &#8211; so far I&#8217;ve not been attacked by any adds/links here at KOS, and I&#8217;m running Windows.</p>
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		<title>By: voksalna</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-140359</link>
		<dc:creator>voksalna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 04:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-140359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rabid Howler Monkey,

Thanks for your equally cogent response. The Forbes article is not speaking of Russian (or CIS) with regards to prices, but when it comes to exploit sales, the location of the person discovering the exploit is largely irrelevant. It is true certain things have a higher price tag in &quot;the West&quot; but that doesn&#039;t mean the &quot;value&quot; is lower or higher; often it is more a matter of your environment when it comes to who you are willing to deal with, from what I&#039;ve seen. In fact, I&#039;d say the &quot;value&quot; of an exploit is far *higher* in Russia or CIS, as a large part of &#039;value&#039; is the ability to wring out possible uses for a thing (something we are good at).

Your idea for a &#039;foundation&#039; of this nature is an interesting one, but ultimately it would most likely wind up a catastrophe. The matter of trust is one of many factors, but the one that likely pushes out the other contenders for most important: unless it were a single, impeccable person only dealing with all of those vendors (and if that happened, then you&#039;d just have a power vacuum and a very big target), those bugs would just wind up passing through many peoples&#039; hands (having to deal with the bugs) and that would be a recipe for disaster.

The same &#039;other parties&#039; would continue to exist and the temptations would be rife (as I&#039;m sure would be the infiltrators). There&#039;d be a large window of opportunity for that &#039;leaking&#039; (i.e. selling) to occur with nothing seeming at all suspicious, too, given the fact that &#039;properly&#039; notifying a vendor and taking things to a patch takes a long time. Money (and politics and... so on) is a corrupter. Everything leaks. It&#039;s unfortunate, but it is true. And once that happened once, the entire project would be shot -- who&#039;d be willing to trust it?

But then this conversation devolves into human nature (something we CIS people ;) may perhaps be more accustomed to delving into the depths of but which, nevertheless, applies to our entire species), and I&#039;m not sure this is the proper forum for such a discussion (though I would not be opposed to having it).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabid Howler Monkey,</p>
<p>Thanks for your equally cogent response. The Forbes article is not speaking of Russian (or CIS) with regards to prices, but when it comes to exploit sales, the location of the person discovering the exploit is largely irrelevant. It is true certain things have a higher price tag in &#8220;the West&#8221; but that doesn&#8217;t mean the &#8220;value&#8221; is lower or higher; often it is more a matter of your environment when it comes to who you are willing to deal with, from what I&#8217;ve seen. In fact, I&#8217;d say the &#8220;value&#8221; of an exploit is far *higher* in Russia or CIS, as a large part of &#8216;value&#8217; is the ability to wring out possible uses for a thing (something we are good at).</p>
<p>Your idea for a &#8216;foundation&#8217; of this nature is an interesting one, but ultimately it would most likely wind up a catastrophe. The matter of trust is one of many factors, but the one that likely pushes out the other contenders for most important: unless it were a single, impeccable person only dealing with all of those vendors (and if that happened, then you&#8217;d just have a power vacuum and a very big target), those bugs would just wind up passing through many peoples&#8217; hands (having to deal with the bugs) and that would be a recipe for disaster.</p>
<p>The same &#8216;other parties&#8217; would continue to exist and the temptations would be rife (as I&#8217;m sure would be the infiltrators). There&#8217;d be a large window of opportunity for that &#8216;leaking&#8217; (i.e. selling) to occur with nothing seeming at all suspicious, too, given the fact that &#8216;properly&#8217; notifying a vendor and taking things to a patch takes a long time. Money (and politics and&#8230; so on) is a corrupter. Everything leaks. It&#8217;s unfortunate, but it is true. And once that happened once, the entire project would be shot &#8212; who&#8217;d be willing to trust it?</p>
<p>But then this conversation devolves into human nature (something we CIS people <img src='http://krebsonsecurity.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  may perhaps be more accustomed to delving into the depths of but which, nevertheless, applies to our entire species), and I&#8217;m not sure this is the proper forum for such a discussion (though I would not be opposed to having it).</p>
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		<title>By: BrianKrebs</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-140237</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianKrebs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-140237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Strange. I use all of those things you just mentioned and never seem to have a problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strange. I use all of those things you just mentioned and never seem to have a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabid Howler Monkey</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-140234</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabid Howler Monkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-140234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@voksalna, thanks for your well-considered reply.  It was enlightening.  While my comment does not address Russia (or, more broadly, the CIS), the article at referenced by my link states that zero-day exploits are payed &quot;very little money&quot; in Russia.  Not that it isn&#039;t an excuse for leaving it out of my post, but just giving the Forbe&#039;s writer some credit.

It&#039;s sad that the only alternatives for exploit hunters are &quot;the underground&quot;, &quot;middle-men&quot; that [often] sell exploits to governments and the few ISVs that pay bug bounties for vulnerabilities (Google is a prime example).

Given the financial losses that individuals, the financial industry, many other businesses/organizations and governments incur from exploits, one would think that a non-profit organization would spring up to purchase exploits, take them off the market and work with ISVs to fix the vulnerabilities targeted by the exploits.  This organization, by its charter, would not provide the exploits to &quot;the underground&quot;, &quot;middle-men&quot;, governments or private industry and would pay more per exploit than &quot;the underground&quot; and less than the &quot;middle-men&quot;.  For those exploit hunters that currently work with &quot;the underground&quot;,  such an option might provide them with higher payments for their work and keep them out of trouble with their &quot;friends&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@voksalna, thanks for your well-considered reply.  It was enlightening.  While my comment does not address Russia (or, more broadly, the CIS), the article at referenced by my link states that zero-day exploits are payed &#8220;very little money&#8221; in Russia.  Not that it isn&#8217;t an excuse for leaving it out of my post, but just giving the Forbe&#8217;s writer some credit.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s sad that the only alternatives for exploit hunters are &#8220;the underground&#8221;, &#8220;middle-men&#8221; that [often] sell exploits to governments and the few ISVs that pay bug bounties for vulnerabilities (Google is a prime example).</p>
<p>Given the financial losses that individuals, the financial industry, many other businesses/organizations and governments incur from exploits, one would think that a non-profit organization would spring up to purchase exploits, take them off the market and work with ISVs to fix the vulnerabilities targeted by the exploits.  This organization, by its charter, would not provide the exploits to &#8220;the underground&#8221;, &#8220;middle-men&#8221;, governments or private industry and would pay more per exploit than &#8220;the underground&#8221; and less than the &#8220;middle-men&#8221;.  For those exploit hunters that currently work with &#8220;the underground&#8221;,  such an option might provide them with higher payments for their work and keep them out of trouble with their &#8220;friends&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: voksalna</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-139779</link>
		<dc:creator>voksalna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 21:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-139779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, actually I did try more than 3 times by the time it posted, but this is good to know, as I believe it is the browser I was using (your site never plays well with Firefox with NoScript and privacy plugins on Linux , ironically enough). Thank you for replying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, actually I did try more than 3 times by the time it posted, but this is good to know, as I believe it is the browser I was using (your site never plays well with Firefox with NoScript and privacy plugins on Linux , ironically enough). Thank you for replying.</p>
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		<title>By: voksalna</title>
		<link>http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/01/crimeware-author-funds-exploit-buying-spree/comment-page-1/#comment-139778</link>
		<dc:creator>voksalna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 21:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://krebsonsecurity.com/?p=18147#comment-139778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Richard,

I am wondering if that 10mm usd plus figure the Thai are quoting is the actual loss he allegedly stole in a single act (I doubt this, for a number of reasons), or what the bank estimates is the &quot;damage&quot; to their systems -- which tends to be more the situation in almost every case like this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>I am wondering if that 10mm usd plus figure the Thai are quoting is the actual loss he allegedly stole in a single act (I doubt this, for a number of reasons), or what the bank estimates is the &#8220;damage&#8221; to their systems &#8212; which tends to be more the situation in almost every case like this.</p>
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