The founder of Liberty Reserve, a digital currency that has evolved as perhaps the most popular form of payment in the cybercrime underground, was reportedly arrested in Spain this week on suspicion of money laundering. News of the law enforcement action may help explain an ongoing three-day outage at libertyreserve.com: On Friday, the domain registration records for that site and for several other digital currency exchanges began pointing to Shadowserver.org, a volunteer organization dedicated to combating global computer crime.
According to separate reports in The Tico Times and La Nacion, two Costa Rican daily newspapers, police in Spain arrested Arthur Budovsky Belanchuk, 39, as part of a money laundering investigation jointly run by authorities in New York and Costa Rica.
Update, May 28, 9:11 a.m. ET: Libertyreserve.com is now resolving again, but its homepage has been replaced by a notice saying “THIS DOMAIN NAME HAS BEEN SEIZED,” and features badges from the U.S. Treasury Dept., U.S. Secret Service, and the DHS.
Original story:
The papers cited Costa Rican prosecutor José Pablo González saying that Budovsky, a Costa Rican citizen of Ukrainian origin, has been under investigation since 2011 for money laundering using Liberty Reserve, a company he created in Costa Rica. “Local investigations began after a request from a prosecutor’s office in New York,” Tico Times reporter L. Arias wrote. “On Friday, San José prosecutors conducted raids in Budovsky’s house and offices in Escazá, Santa Ana, southwest of San José, and in the province of Heredia, north of the capital. Budovsky’s businesses in Costa Rica apparently were financed by using money from child pornography websites and drug trafficking.”
For those Spanish-speaking readers out there, Gonzalez can be seen announcing the raids in a news conference documented in this youtube.com video (the subtitles option for English do a decent job of translation as well).
Liberty Reserve is a largely unregulated money transfer business that allows customers to open accounts using little more than a valid email address, and this relative anonymity has attracted a huge number of customers from underground economies, particularly cybercrime.
In a now 10-page thread on this crime forum, many members are facing steep losses.
The trouble started on Thursday, when libertyreserve.com inexplicably went offline. The outage set off increasingly anxious discussions on several major cybercrime forums online, as many that work and ply their trade in malicious software and banking fraud found themselves unable to access their funds. For example, a bulletproof hosting provider on Darkode.com known as “off-sho.re” (a hacker profiled in this blog last week) said he stood to lose $25,000, and that the Liberty Reserve shutdown “could be the most massive ownage in the history of e-currency.”
That concern turned to dread for some after it became apparent that this was no ordinary outage. On Friday, the domain name servers for Libertyreserve.com were changed and pointed to ns1.sinkhole.shadowserver.org and ns2.sinkhole.shadowserver.org. Shadowserver is an all-volunteer nonprofit organization that works to help Internet service providers and hosting firms eradicate malware infections and botnets located on their servers.
In computer security lexicon, a sinkhole is basically a way of redirecting malicious Internet traffic so that it can be captured and analyzed by experts and/or law enforcement officials. In its 2011 takedown of the Coreflood botnet, for example, the U.S. Justice Department relied on sinkholes maintained by the nonprofit Internet Systems Consortium (ISC). Sinkholes are most often used to seize control of botnets, by interrupting the DNS names the botnet is programmed to use. Ironically, as of this writing Shadowserver.org is not resolving, possibly because the Web site is under a botnet attack (hackers from at least one forum threatened to attack Shadowserver.org in retaliation for losing access to their funds).
Reached via Twitter, a representative from Shadowserver declined to comment on the outage or about Liberty Reserve, saying “We are not able to provide public comment at this time.” I could find no official statement from the U.S. Justice Department on this matter either.
Libertyreserve.com is not the only virtual currency exchange that has been redirected to Shadowserver’s DNS servers. According to passive DNS data collected by the ISC, at least five digital currency exchanges —milenia-finance
Assuming the reports at The Tico Times and El Nacion are accurate, this would not be the first time Mr. Budovsky has attracted attention from authorities for money laundering. According to the Justice Department, on July 27, 2006, Arthur Budovsky and a man named Vladimir Kats were indicted by the state of New York on charges of operating an illegal money transmittal business, GoldAge Inc., from their Brooklyn apartments. From a Justice Department account of that case:
“The defendants had transmitted at least $30 million to digital currency accounts worldwide since beginning operations in 2002. The digital currency exchanger, GoldAge, received and transmitted $4 million between January 1, 2006, and June 30, 2006, as part of the money laundering scheme. Customers opened online GoldAge accounts with limited documentation of identity, then GoldAge purchased digital gold currency through those accounts; the defendants’ fees sometimes exceeded $100,000. Customers could choose their method of payment to GoldAge: wire remittances, cash deposits, postal money orders, or checks. Finally, the customers could withdraw the money by requesting wire transfers to accounts anywhere in the world or by having checks sent to any identified individual.”
From the U.S. government’s description, Liberty Reserve sounds virtually indistinguishable from GoldAge, except for having been based in Costa Rica. If Liberty Reseve stays offline, this could cause a major upheaval in the cybercrime economy. I will be following this case closely, and would expect to hear more about this apparently coordinated takedown following the Memorial Day holiday in the U.S. on Monday.
For now, however, many in the underground would rather believe almost any other explanation than a law enforcement takedown. The administrator of cybercrime forum Carder.pro, for example, has been telling forum members that the entire incident is the work of professional hackers working for Liberty Reserve’s competitors.
Carder.pro administrator “Ninja” isn’t buying the news being reported by Costa Rican media.
Update, May 26, 10:45 p.m. ET: A competitor to Liberty Reserve, a virtual currency called Perfect Money, on Saturday posted a note to its site saying it would no longer accept new registrations from individuals or companies based in the United States. “We bring to your attention that due to changes in our policy we forbid new registrations from individuals or companies based in the United States of America. This includes US citizens residing overseas,” the company wrote. “If you fall under the above mentioned category or a US resident, please do not register an account with us. We apologize for any inconvenience caused.”
Update, May 28, 1:26 p.m., ET: I just filed a follow-up story which confirms that libertyreseve.com and other exchangers were seized by the U.S. government. The story also examines the impact of this law enforcement action on other digital currencies, including Bitcoin.
By the way , will code later .
I run a legitimate business with LR though some criminals make use of it too but you can not use that as the basis of your judgement. Its like cancelling the use of cash,this is insane,a very bad decision and day light robbery. LR must be back ! Thank God I withdraw my $9800 two weeks before this rubbish.
@Fred: since LR is providing an illegal service, your use of that service makes your business illegitimate by definition. Why can’t you use a legitimate bank (or other financial provider as appropriate) instead?
Here is an example. Say I write a simple program to automate backups, something that takes me a few minutes to write but which, because it requires some know-how, I can afford to charge a modest sum for, let’s say $100. Now say I want to use that money. If I want to transfer that to a bank, assuming I am willing to put up with the headache and physically go to the bank to fill out forms every single time this happens, and assuming I find a “legitimate” processor willing to process my payment (for a totally legitimate piece of code), I will probably pay them 10-20% for the privilege. I will then have to pay a wire fee, most likely, of about 30 USD or the equivalent (it gets fun because sometimes it’s 30 EUR which is obviously not 30 USD but they can play this math also). I will also have to pay the exchange rate and then pay them to be willing to do the exchange. I will then have to go back to the bank to withdraw the cash afterwards, at which point I have made perhaps 1/4 of the money I “got paid”. Guess how much I would have to declare for taxes.
One reason places like LR are so great for people who work on small contracts is because it allows us to aggregate our payments and receipts, thus grossly simplifying our paperwork and providing us with actual monetary value — in effect we can do this once a month or so instead of daily, and in the process save a lot of money that we need to survive and function.
And in some countries, to add insult to injury, there is even a banking embargo — they literally do not even have the choice I do. Some countries don’t even have an embargo but certain banks will refuse to service their country — this is what I was talking about earlier. Typically these are often card issuing banks (and Visa is perhaps most notorious for this, for whatever reason).
I think I have answered this question sufficiently but if you would like me to go into more detail, feel free to ask.
Oh I left out the fact that I would also have to wait 1-4 weeks to be able to access that 25%.
By the way, I’m not sure you know what illegal means, or else you believe it applies everywhere instead of one locality. As I stated earlier, if the US does not want this sort of business being transacted by its citizens it has the same option it had when it came to gambling — leave the business alone, and instead prohibit its own citizens from using it.
This is a big part of the reason a lot of other e-currencies and banks will not permit Americans to avail of their services — that and the added overhead of having to provide documentation that they do not have to provide to other countries. In effect, the US has made its citizens beholden to it by making nobody else really want to transact with it for fear of things like this, ie seizures or sanctions. If this were truly “wrong” I would imagine other countries would do these sorts of shutdowns; the fact that it is almost always the US and nowhere else speaks volumes about the term ‘illegal’.
The arrest was made by Costa Rica, not by the US. It seems likely that this would not have happened had the business been legitimate under Costa Rican law.
I find it hard to believe that there isn’t any legit, affordable way of selling your (hypothetical?) product. What about selling via Amazon? They aggregate payments. Or, if you’re doing enough business that aggregating payments and receipts is important, why can’t you afford a Visa merchant account? My wife used to have one – it wasn’t all that expensive.
As far as embargos go: if your nation does not allow you to sell to foreigners, then you shouldn’t do so. Similarly, if foreigners are not allowed to buy from you, then you shouldn’t be trying to sell to them.
* You’re confusing laws with preference. There are no laws saying that Visa or its banks will not do business here. Many of them just choose not to. Guess why? Fraud. You think you are the only victims?
* Amazon is ACH. 2Checkout is ACH. Most of these require US payment/ACH accounts.
* Since I am not a bulk merchant I fail to see what a merchant account has to do with anything. I am an individual. I am self-employed. I employ others from time to time when I have a lot of work. They are self-employed.
I am not angry at you or your country, so much as I am sad because most in your country have been educated to believe that your way of life is the way life is for everyone; you have been taught to be this way, and your government does well to, while not preventing its people from being educated, not encourage its people to know too much, because that would create friction, and friction would get in the way.
ACH? I’m guessing Automated Clearing House, based on a quick Google search. I’m not sure I understand why this is a problem. Are your nation’s banks not hooked into ACH? If not, why not?
A “merchant account” is [probable oversimplification alert] just a bank account that can accept credit card payments. You don’t have to be a big business, my wife wasn’t (she ran a website which earned at peak one or two hundred dollars a month, if I recall correctly).
Out of curiosity, what country do you think I live in?
If you really don’t have any realistic option but to deal with oddball services such as LR, then I’m sorry for any losses you incurred as a result of this shutdown. But I don’t see that the US is to blame.
To clarify my current state of mind, if you can present a credible argument that the US created the circumstances that prevent you from accepting payments in any more ordinary way, I’d be much more likely to accept the premise that they have a moral obligation to allow services like LR to exist. (Although you’d still have to convince me that LR could not have served legitimate users while taking the usual precautions against money laundering.)
I am a little bit concerned at the fact that you seem to be suggesting there is only one way to do things, and it is the way you wish them to be done. I’m not sure why I should not have a choice in how I conduct business. I am neither requesting nor requiring that you accept Liberty Reserve. Perhaps I also do not want my money to be the business of the United States. What if they wonder what I do? Does it matter if I am not a criminal? I’d say, in the current climate, that it does not.
These days merely the insinuation (my last big, “I went to school for this language” word of the day) that someone is a liar, or a criminal, or a pervert, or a t-r-o-ist (see, I am afraid even to type this out) tends to be sufficient to cause people great hardship. Notice how swiftly the US was to mention “child pornography” because (clearly) nobody that is upstanding would want to say they support a man or a business that supports child pornography; it really does not even matter if he was involved in child pornography as long as it can be twisted in this way in order to make him the enemy. Character assassination is a common occurrence, and it permits injustices to be regularly heaped upon people all over the world. Because it does not happen to you does not mean that it cannot, either.
If I am wanting to keep my private business between myself and my bank, without the US knowing about business I conduct *not even in the US* then why is this a crime? Am I not permitted a choice? And if so, who made this decision? I do not buy that the US has the right to tell me what to do. Hell, I do not buy that they really have the right to tell Americans what to do (but OK if people wish to be governed in this way that is their choice — but I am not one of their slaves); I certainly do not believe they have the right to say what Canadians, or Britons, or Australians, or Irish, or any other English-speaking country’s citizens, either, can do. I am not only saying ‘oh feel sorry for me because I am in a different country’. Don’t feel sorry for me. I do not want your pity. I do not live in a country that believes money to be the end-all, be-all. I do believe in honour.
As for Americans, I believe the government is supposed to work for them; this is a great way for people to shout about how great their country is while never challenging it or its actions — and if people try, they are invariably overwhelmed by more resources than anybody else can possibly gather. This is not what your forefathers created the US for at all; if anything it was to prevent this sort of thing.
That said, if the government there convinces its people that it is in its best interest to do as they want, that is their choice, as long as it does not affect me or impinge upon my rights (or the rights of the citizens of any other countries that did not enter into this sort of a contract with them). There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. So many of the comments here are obviously American by their suggestions — and if they are not then they are not far removed. They are of the same culture.
Frankly I don’t believe even an American should be told that they cannot own money in the way they wish to own it (or spend it). I think this is one of the scariest things I’ve ever witnessed in my life, and I have been around for some time.
What makes you suggest I don’t want you to have a choice in how you do business? All I’m suggesting is that you should have the choice to do business with reputable institutions at reasonable prices – a choice you are claiming you do not currently have. If or when you do have such a choice, and continue to choose instead dodgy businesses like LR, then that’s up to you – but you’ll have to put up with the consequences.
To turn your argument around, if the people of Costa Rica, Spain, and the US support laws against money laundering, why do you feel entitled to tell them they can’t enforce them? If commandos had snuck into your country and stolen your cash that would be one thing, but in this case (if I understand correctly) the money was confiscated while within Costa Rican jurisdiction.
[Incidentally, I don’t see what my forefathers have to do with anything, but for the record, and to the best of my knowledge, none of them were involved in founding America, and I find your comments along this line mildly offensive.]
In reversed order of how you brought them up:
” [Incidentally, I don’t see what my forefathers have to do with anything, but for the record, and to the best of my knowledge, none of them were involved in founding America, and I find your comments along this line mildly offensive.]”
* Ah I mentioned a lot of English-speaking countries but I did not mention New Zealand. I was not directing the American part at you, but I was suggesting that there are a number of cultural similarities, at least when it comes to doing business.
If I am going to talk about countries, then first off I will say that New Zealand is a very photographic country, not that it has any bearing on this conversation, and second I would say that most of the New Zealanders (is this the right word?) I have met have been generally OK people; hopefully not to insult, but I see a lot of similarities between New Zealanders and Canadians.
Having said that I think that the fact that you share a common banking system (ANZ is very popular there correct?) with Australia, and Australia with the US has made it very easy to see why you are making the arguments you are making.
********
“What makes you suggest I don’t want you to have a choice in how you do business? All I’m suggesting is that you should have the choice to do business with reputable institutions at reasonable prices – a choice you are claiming you do not currently have. If or when you do have such a choice, and continue to choose instead dodgy businesses like LR, then that’s up to you – but you’ll have to put up with the consequences.”
* I should actually have the choice to conduct my business in cash as well, but have you tried this lately? THEN you are called a ‘money launderer’ because surely a cash business must be illegitimately washing money.
Regardless I do not believe we will ever agree on this topic. I continue to believe that LR really did nothing wrong. If anybody broke ‘laws’ it was exchangers and if they did break laws then their own countries should be the ones to deal with it — not the US. It is funny how I have seen no mention of the exchangers that got shut down that was mentioned in Brian’s story in any of these comments. It is also maybe very telling.
Most of the stories and indictments I have read have actually very explicitly stated exchangers, if they stated anything at all. If it matters, I had never used any of the exchangers that were taken down, nor have I used any, as far as I know, that were ever mentioned in any indictments. Some are better than others. Some are worse than others. While I do not necessarily believe that exchangers should be shut down, I’d say it is silly to blame LR instead of the exchangers. LR did not handle money except in the loosest terms. LR was more like an accounting book — you can do it legitimately or you can cook it. If someone is a criminal, you prosecute the criminal — you do not prosecute everybody in his neighbourhood, or his city, or his country, or his online forum for that matter. If there is a crime, then punish the criminal. I believe there is a phrase for this in English, though I cannot believe I ever thought I would use it somewhere: “Do not throw the baby out with the bathwater”.
******
“To turn your argument around, if the people of Costa Rica, Spain, and the US support laws against money laundering, why do you feel entitled to tell them they can’t enforce them? If commandos had snuck into your country and stolen your cash that would be one thing, but in this case (if I understand correctly) the money was confiscated while within Costa Rican jurisdiction.”
* But this is not what the case is about, and Spain arrested someone on the request of another country. Any country can (and will) do this — thanks to Interpol (and Europol in some cases) — and it has nothing to do with whether the person is guilty, or at this point if there is even proof — only that they have asked for him to be arrested. Interestingly actual proof (or lack of proof) won’t even be an issue until or if there are extradition proceedings, and even then it won’t really say anything… In the meanwhile, this man’s business has been destroyed, and likely thousands upon thousands of of legitimate business people will have had their money seized and (most likely) permanently lost — and even, on the small chance, if it ever gets returned (it won’t, if things stay down, but as I said I have not seen any seizure graphics yet, and I have not heard anything about bank accounts or the site itself — it is even being sinkholed by a private company (which I have done some research on but have no interest in talking about)… we probably will not know until Tuesday at the very earliest), what good will that do anybody as far as past pain and suffering.
You are doing to us what people are doing by stealing money from people’s bank accounts, except you eventually get it back from your country’s guaranteed reserves, we who lost legitimate earnings (and not even earnings — some people just lost deposits and never made a single exchange on the server yet at all) never do. At a minimum we lose the access to the funds for a very long time (you often do not — as far as I know most Western banks will give individuals at least a temporary credit while they investigate), we cannot retroactively live our lives, we cannot use that money to live or invest or buy a home or go to school or make a life or pay our wages or do whatever *we* choose to do with the money that is ours.
By the way since I seem to have insulted you a little bit, which was not my intention, do you mind if I ask you why people of Western countries believe it is OK for their banks to tell them they can only have access to a few hundred dollars, maybe a thousand dollars, per day? Other countries do also of course, but other countries don’t require banks as much as your countries do so I believe it is a fair question.
It’s not unusual here for small businesses to only take payment in cash. I don’t think that would attract attention. A business that didn’t use banking at all would certainly attract attention, because it would not be a sensible choice for a legitimate business. Still, it’s not against the law.
I agree that we are unlikely to come to a consensus, but I appreciate your willingness to present your viewpoint, it has been interesting.
(Another interesting thing about the comments on this article is that it has become clear that many people didn’t consider it at all strange or risky to put their life savings in a web site. That’s mind-boggling to me.)
“I continue to believe that LR really did nothing wrong.” – I don’t claim to be an expert, but my belief was that there are specific legal requirements that a financial service must meet, and that LR didn’t do so. Of course this still needs to be shown before a court of law, but at the moment it doesn’t smell like an unjustified or malicious prosecution to me.
“[…] do you mind if I ask you why people of Western countries believe it is OK for their banks to tell them they can only have access to a few hundred dollars, maybe a thousand dollars, per day?” Not at all, but I can’t answer, since I’m not aware of any such restriction here. I’ve checked my bank’s terms of service and the NZ Banking Code of Practice and didn’t find anything. I don’t recall offhand the exact size of the largest cash withdrawal I’ve ever made, but I believe several thousand dollars.
And because I am worried that my comment comparing this to people who steal from bank accounts will once again have even more people calling me a criminal and a thief, I will mention yet again, I DO NOT DO THIS SORT OF THING. It is not irony. If you do it to someone who does then maybe you wish to laugh, but doing it to just anybody is no better than the people you scorn.
As far as the arrest, it was made by and in Spain, at the request of Costa Rica, at the behest of the United States. The sinkholes are American also. I should stop bothering replying anymore to anyone.
Harry> “The arrest was made by Costa Rica, not by the US. It seems likely that this would not have happened had the business been legitimate under Costa Rican law.”
I noticed this in the ABC News report of the arrest: “Liberty Reserve appears to have played an important role in laundering the proceeds from the recent theft of some $45 million from two Middle Eastern banks, according to legal documents made public by U.S. authorities earlier this month.”
Yeah, shutting that down would get some international cooperation I’d think…
Legal does NOT equalts to lawful, or fair. (and opposite)
Governmental laws are NOT laws by God, but only by the Establishment people who made them for THEIR OWN benefits, NOT for the benefits of the peoples.
Of cause a person must and forced to follow the laws. But shall always keep in mind, that some laws are unfair, unlawful, and contrary to the human being.
* * *
1)
You’ve mentioned “legitimate bank”, but could you please point me to ANY bank, which does not use FRACTIONAL RESERVING?
2)
Could you please point me to ANY currency, which is BACKED by something solid? And thus has no need to be of FIAT kind of money.
3)
Could you please name me the currency (and it ussuer), which is the most commonly and wide used in financing crime, terrorism, wars, homicide, etc.?
(prompting: that currency is not Liberty Reserve and it is the “legal tender” in one of the biggest counties)
Obviously Governmental laws are not laws by God, because there’s no such being. You seem to have some objection(s) to modern currency systems; I agree with you in part, but I don’t believe it’s relevant to the issue of money laundering.
@Toad
@Harry Johnston
I do not hold reserves in LR, and do not use it in my businesses, and not an adherent of Mr. Budovky. I just want to explain the motives and underlying reasons to what happens and takes place in the world. Not limited to LR case, which is just one small brick to the wall of the modern order. As the most probable by logics and by the essence of the things.
As it is known, the USD currency performs 3 main functions:
a) Reserve instrument worldwide
b) Transfer instrument for business deals worldwide
c) Currency of the US as legal tender
Money issue as per QE1-QE2-QE3 flown to local market initially, but the total grow of dollar monetary aggregate (multiplied by debts) could effect negatively to the confidence of abroad dollar holders.
That is why some “sterilization” of monetary aggregate was always required after each QE!!!
There are only TWO principal methods of monetary sterilization:
1) Economical – when the institutional (tycoon) players “make” markets in the needed way, and thus thru the controlled volatility and trends strip money from the other players (smaller, or private investors, householders).
This was applied right after the QE1.
But by the QE2 this method become inefficient, as the middle-class reserves come exhausted in general.
2) Political – when the excessive monetary aggregate is seized by some political reasons (enforced, or by law) – “export of democracy”, “war for peace”, and charge of, or just suspicion in “money laundering”, financing of something bad, and so on.
This was applied couple months after QE2 – known as the “Arab spring”.
But by the autumn of 2011 this method had to be aborted, as jolly “springers” become a menace to the “metropolis” countries.
In the autumn of 2012, by the same reason to supply close confidants with funds, the government started QE3.
And stays in front of dilemma – what method to apply to sterilize excessive monetary aggregate created as per QE3.
From one side: the middle-class does not have enough fleece for shearing yet. And it might cause unnecessary social stresses.
From the other side: government cannot find suitable “public enemy” to be ripped, – enough “fat”, enough weak, and applicable for stigmatizing by media.
And they are searching for it by groping:
I) In March 2013 (after preliminary successful “test” on HSBC in 2012) they tried to repress all Cyprus banks, but Greeks appeared not to be so pliant.
II) Then in April 2013 they tried to repress offshores. Under the cover story of “independent journalists” http://www.icij.org computers of several offshore registrars have been hacked, databases stolen and e-mail correspondence intercepted.
(www.icij.org/offshore/secret-files-expose-offshores-global-impact)
But the target hit appeared not to be so “fat” (several million only, far below juice squeezed from Arab families in 2011), and the further expanding of hacking attack to more registrars might harm the elitarians themselves. Anyway, this application was countermanded.
III) In May 2013 we may see that searching by groping – in repression against e-currency of LR.
And the nowadays situation around LR looks sudden and strange.
Take into account two things:
1. In March 2013 FinCEN legalized many aspects of e-currency turnover for individuals and businesses
FIN-2013-G001 http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html
Many things become legally allowed for e.g. BitCoin users. When BTC is much more anonymous and applicable for laundering, child pornography, drug-dealing, and financing terrorism, than LR.
2. Budovsky was sentenced in 2006, and got probation, and soon emerged in Costa-Rica, continuing with LR. The only logical assumption is that his “probation” was to work under supervision of the “Some” Service. If he was really doing intended criminal activity (I mean criminal activity “unapproved” by supervisor) as claimed in this article, then thru these 6 years he had great chance to escape from any arrest – just not to reside in Costa-Rica, or Spain, but leave to some LatAm, African, Asian, CIS country (especially he has Ukrainian origin), which does not care much about inquiries from the US (remind e.g. case with Dmitry Golubov and Carderplanet)…
Why he did not???
@Fred:How did you withdraw $9800 safely from your LR account? Which exchanger did you trust to do that?
See if they can go after Profit Clicking also
Guys any can be done to get the cash back . Can a petition help or any Law firm
Hrm, what’s that sound? Oh yes, that’s just me playing the world’s saddest song on the world’s tinniest violin, to express my sympathy for all of the spammers & other criminals who have been inconvenienced. And see at that red spot on my shirt? It would appear that my heart has begun bleeding for them too!
perfectmoney is not d answer, you under the US control using it..lol
V, you seem reasonably literate for a thief with no morals at all. Why don’t you start the bank you want and help out all the people you claim need help? All you have to do is not get involved in money laundering or storage of funds received through crime.
Let’s again remember that this situation came about because criminals like to steal from others. So, do you have a solution other than rolling back the clock 1 week and letting you continue to steal? As unhappy as you are about losing what you have stolen, so are the people you stole it from. You expect a shred of sympathy; where’s your sympathy for them?
It’s not up to me to tell you how to do this right. I’m only confirming to you how it’s done wrong, and advising you that even if you diversify, you are going to continue to have your money confiscated. You are bound to have enough skills to make an honest living, and if you aren’t willing to, tough.
The below comment in full was meant to be a reply to you but I apparently did not click the correct button on this web page. It starts with: “You are a troll but I have continued to be reasonable towards you. I am not by anyone’s definition (but yours, apparently, though you do not know a thing about me) a thief.” in case it gets lost in the comments.
I was not going to reply again but after a swift google, I can in no way resist not pasting this comment of yours from elsewhere — and I quote:
Dear :
I oppose H.R. 308: Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device Act because…it is another attempt to blame legitimate owners and users of firearms for the ills of society. Banning large capacity magazines would not have prevented Rep Giffords from being injured. The blame for crime needs to be laid at the feet of the criminal and not of the device he uses to commit a crime.
Toadbrooks
Texas’s 32nd district
https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr308/comment/73077
Even where I am from we have this thing called irony.
Iam from Nigeria.I just pray that Libertyreserve is banned forever.Libertyreserve was never ligitimate.Imagine all the HYIP schemes being promoted via libertyreserve.Imagine i lost my hard earned money($15) from ‘oil-richesh.com’.Go work America
that you lost $15 to some oil riches stuff means you made up your mind to deal. Did you not hear of goldpackage? Did they not fold up even when they did not use LR? You are just being insensitive. People will lose many of money for what they do not know of and you talk of $15.
I have earned money through honest means, i have funded my FOREX account via LR becos it is one payment option my brokers allow. You can not generalize and say that every one running their transactions through LR is a criminal.
As far as i am concerned it aided me make transactions quickly and bcos you are not affected, you should concluded on behalf of those people like me who are confused at this moment
You are a troll but I have continued to be reasonable towards you. I am not by anyone’s definition (but yours, apparently, though you do not know a thing about me) a thief.
Probably because I am making good points and you have no logically thought-out rebuttals, calling me a thief is the best you can do, and since I am not one of these ‘bad men’ you so desperately want to lash out at, there is nothing I would or would choose to do because you are being ridiculous, and that is your right. Be ridiculous. But I think smearing my personage is a crime in your country, and that kind of makes you a criminal. I do not intend to sue you because I am a reasonable man and find your attempts to keep replying with the same blah blah at least more effort than most people make in your country to participate. Maybe 5 or 10 years from now you will look back and rethink all of this. Then I will have not wasted my time.
I do not expect reasonable rebuttals, because this is not a place for reasonable rebuttals — it attracts several types of people. One type will probably be the type you hate. One type is probably ‘every man’. One type is probably a “security industry professional” who needs this ecosystem to survive. One type is probably like me, but I am not going to label myself in any way other than to say I am a technical expert, and I make an honest living. Sometimes I do feel bad that my technical skills pay me better than a farmer or a janitor (in your vocabulary) because I know that both of them probably provide a longer-term benefit to society. I come here because I have knowledge and at times I wish to try to help people see all sides of a story instead of from narrow angles and convenient positions.
If just a few people have been swayed then I will be satisfied with the day or so I have spent making well-thought-out and time-consuming replies to you and the others on this blog. And in a very strange way I probably also helped Brian make HIS $50 LR USD back. Perhaps humourously so did the type of people you hate the most.
Maybe this makes Brian just as much of a “thief” as you are so content to portray me as.
Either way, I know what I am and who I am. Do you? You are apparently in the military judging by the APO/FPO address on your eBay. Does this make you a killer of small children?
Generalisations harm all cultures. Maybe you believe because I am not from your home country that I am your enemy. To that I can only say, they have trained you well. You have the capacity to think for yourself and take the time to do a maybe painful look at yourself to re-evaluate what makes you want me to be a criminal so much. You must have a reason. Maybe somebody hurt you. If so, then I am sorry, but that person was not me, and by generalising you are causing harm to others.
I will probably not be replying as much from now on because I have mostly said what I wanted to say now.
V, you are full of complaints, but no matter how many times I have asked, you have no solution other than the status quo. I still can’t imagine why you think anyone should have any sympathy for your situation when you have none for the victims of computer crime. You come up with a solution that eliminates computer crime and I’ll gladly do everything I can to see that LR is restored. You also aren’t as smart as you think you are. I do not live in Texas and I am not in the military. Brooks is about the 4th most common last name in the US.
I’m sorry, what? Someone was lying about you on the internet and saying you did things you didn’t do?
That’s terrible.
No worries, I know you are the one who has all the gaming and ubuntu accounts. Not that there should really be so many “toadbrooks” in one world, but who am I to judge.
I’m not going to apologise, of course, because you have not ONCE apologised to me. By your logic, I should actually continue to say you’re the soldier from Dallas, Texas. You’re probably really lying to me anyway and it’s the same person. You should probably submit photographic proof to me; once I see your driver’s license and/or passport and a copy of a utility bill from the past 3 months with your current, legal residential address, then I will take back what I was saying.
I hope that gaming is teaching you many valuable lessons about the world.
V, let’s say you are innocent and a victim in this case. (Of course, posting what you think is my identity, presumably for retaliation, doesn’t make you look like one of the good guys, but so what? Incidentally, I will be glad to post my driver’s license or utility bill or whatever,immediately after you do first.)
If I were using a service that was also being used by people doing illegal things that might attract government attention, I’d be doing something about getting the bad guys off the service I used. You are pissed at the US for trying to stop crime, but you did nothing to protect the service you use from being used by criminals. Guilt by association, also known as aiding and abetting in civilized countries, is something people who can think will generally try to avoid.
I’m still waiting for you or anyone else to post a solution that solves both problems, computer crime and giving you back access to your money. Again, it’s hard to imagine that you are so self-centerted that you expect people to be sympathetic to your issue while having no concern at all about theirs.
I am not sure that will ever post and I was fairly happy with it so let me see if I can try this again:
* If you are at all an intelligent man (and I am assuming gender here, perhaps this is wrong of me), then you would realise very well that even shutting down every bank and transactionary institution would not stop crime at all. You have created a false situation that relies on some idealistic fantasy world of how even legitimate banking systems work. I am sure that the Jewish peoples would not be very pleased by this attitude given how freely and easily monies were confiscated from them FROM BANKS in World War 2, for instance. I am not sure why you have this implicit faith in what you deem ‘legitimate’ banks especially considering what they are doing with mortgages and loans in your country, but maybe I am just an idiot and you are right. There are probably planets where this is possible. If you find one please let me know. Almost every bit of money that has ever circulated, both in and out of financial institutions is dirty or has been dirty at one point or another. Realise this and you may start to grasp what you are asking. Or you know what you are asking and thus are deliberately being a disingenuous character.
* It bothers me that you have not actually addressed ANY of my arguments.
* I will actually ask you, now, instead to please thoughtfully and meaningfully explain, in full, your arguments to me. I want to know why you believe what you believe, in words that do not loop back upon themselves.
* I’d also like to know who taught you that anybody not like you is the enemy even if they harm noone. What is funny is how you assume I have not done anything positive, which is probably just as ignorant as assuming everyone who claims they have, here, is necessarily on your side, whatever side that happens to be.
* Incidentally I am positive you are using things that criminals use to commit crimes every single day of your life. Have you ever received mail? Taken public transportation? A cab? A car? Have you ever used a lock and key? Have you ever run a packet sniffer? Have you ever booted up a computer to run it on? Have you ever used an ATM or a piece of cash or a credit card or a cash? Have you ever handled a water gun? Have you ever used a balloon (I hear people do nitrous oxide with these)? Have you ever used Drano (I hear this can be used to make methamphetamine)? Have you ever used a fire/smoke alarm (these contain small pieces of radioactive materials that can be used to make a nuclear device)? Have you ever had sex? Have you ever read any religion’s version of a ‘holy book’? Have you ever taken ‘Tylenol’ (these have been deliberately poisoned in the past!)? Have you ever taken a prescription medication (they manipulate scientific data all the time)? Have you ever have you ever have you ever… I could go on here but if you do not see the point I am making, then there is no point to be made with you. Everything has, and can, be used to facilitate crime. Cars kill more people every year in your country than guns. I am not sure that saving money by banking how I choose kills anyone, but if you can provide me with examples, do please do so. I could use the entertainment. It is an absurd hour here and absurdity goes well with absurd hours.
* Too many problems in this world come about as the result of people believing that things are inherently good or bad.
* I look forward to your well-thought out and explanatory, descriptive post defining how you came to your conclusions with much interest.
CooloutAC … four you biggest problem/dilema in your life is to decide what to buy PS4 or Xbox 720 …
With other things you do not bother so much …
Man take a trip round the globe (do not reside in elite resorts) “feel” the world outside the border …
And come back after year or so … and kill me if you will be saying same shit as you are saying right now !
No1 LR user country is INDONESIA .. not China .. not Ukraina.. not Nigeria …
And in there they do not live in Clay Huts …
Can invest in online exchanger .. make 100$ or 200$ of it per month … BUT STILL cant afford basic healthcare … in any case get for example denga fever ….
Man stop be so narrow minded .. thing outside of a box .. and your selfish perspective .. at least here .. probably if in realife selfishnes determines your chanses for surviving in enviroment where you living … this aint the case in here … where you are more or less anon. and can say what you feel or think without being clasified as stupid or traitor (since you are going against your own “company”, or selfish intrests)
yes, its true, im indonesian and i lost 923$, its big amount for me, that money is my college fund, now what im supposed to do?
i earned that money not ilegally, but by trading, no ilegal activity.
“I am sorry… bad luck” .. thats all what you will get from them !
By some kind of twisted definitions from US legal (unjust) system … you are “illegal” entity …
by accepting LR you are commiting crime against US !!???
or some shit like that ….
And they have the power at the momment to shut down all !
But if your Indonesian goverment imprison you … because your atheistic belifs and thoughts expresed on Facebook or Twitter … they wont do jack shit about it !
they will say it is out of their jurisdiction … 😀
but when it is money involved … all is their “jurisdiction” !
I hope you beleve in reincarantion .. coz right now you can just pray that for next life you will have more luck to be born under more lucky “star” (more liveable and fair life conditions) ….
Like I said … no justice … just moneytalk !
and those with the bigger guns makes the rules !
Indonesia conducted a genocide pretty recently. Why is it that the only countries complaining about losing LR are ones that have atrocious human rights records?
What? you are a humanitarian now?
When was I not? I assume you’re confusing me with someone else, based on your wording.
ya you got me…thats the biggest dillemma in my life. I feel like snatching you through the computer screen you arrogant phony.
the reality is there is high unemployment in America. And alot of us dont’ get healthcare either.
And then we have to listen to you foreigners complain while you rob 1 out of 3 americans of their credit….virus our computers….. and take all the legal jobs from us too.
Liberty Reserve and their ilk also sound like a great way for people to avoid having to pay tax. Its good that they are coming under fire.
@Toad- Good luck persuading any government to help anyone who use services like Liberty Reserve, I’m sure the Tax Authorities would love to know what people were doing with the service. 🙂
@Madmonkey – about taxes
@Harry Johnston – re. “money laudering” prosecution as one of the methods just to seize funds by the political reason.
Now, we all live in the world of SOCIALISM that has won (in ALL the so called “developed” countries), as the most part of labour gains is expropriated (80-90%). When, directly – via taxation, excises, customs duties, as well as indirectly – through inflation caused by emmission and debt multiplicator. The savings that a working person could really save after taxes, cutting himself in consumption, are devaluated.
For world elites, the main issue is to keep control over the human beings. In the present civilization of financial-based communications, it is possible through stripping of the people of their ability to save liquid valuables: Money, precious metals, etc.
That’s why the world elites are so jealously evelish towards any attempt of ordinary people to make moves that escape the control and oversight (beyond the lawful though preterlegal policy of labour income expropriation).
We may refer to these presently consistent encash, and offshore, and e-currency operations, which are becoming limited and pursued.
The taxation, excises, customs duties – are the EVIL by itself!
I do not say “not to pay tax” – as everyone must and forced to follow laws, even if laws are unfair, unlawful, and contrary to the human being.
But the duly person must UNDERSTAND that paying such contribution to the Behemothic State – he deprives himself and his children of medication, education and other life conditions, one is worthy of.
At the moment any “developed” State is the institution – owned, ruled, and geverned by the elitaries in favour of THEIR benefits, not the benefits of people!
Before XX century the tax expropriation was usually around 10% or less. It was before commies, social-democrats, and Keynesians (all – pushed forward and paid by the elitarians) who grabbed the power in industrial countries in the 20-th century. Now the accumulative expropriation by taxes and excises is around 80-90%.
If a person works and his labour brings e.g. 1000 USD of income, than the governmental Behemoth misappropriates 600-800 USD of it. And then the excises (included in prices) sponge around 50% of the remainder. After that, if a person did not waste all of money in consumption and investing, and saved some in cash, the Behemoth applies inflation to devaluate the savings.
Thus any person cannot make savings to serve his future needs, or enterprises, but the current expense only.
If that person needs pension, or medication, or education for himself or his children, or wants to start his own business, – then he has NO enough savings to pay for it by himself, i.e. no other way than – go kneeling and beg the Behemoth to help.
The SAME State Behemoth which stripped that man of his labour gains thru the previous periods of time.
The gemeni-ideas of Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, and Keynes “won” all over the world. By fact and by the essence! Both WW and many local, civil wars and disasters with multi-million victims were organized to set up the MODERN GLOBAL SOCIALISTIC ORDER.
Taxes, excises and customs duties are NOT of any social, or economical purpose, but of political ones only! Which is to expropriate the most of labour gains of working people, and thus to prohibit people from collecting savings, and corresponding freedom. The rest of savings is devaluated by inflation, created by the same elitarians for the same political purpose.
Most of the social institutions are funded by money emission, or like Ponzi. NOT by taxes!
Seizing people’s labour gains and savings, the elitarians mean: “All of you, people, are incapable, stupid, careless, and irresponsible to care about your old age, your children, education, and medication by yourselves. Only We can do this properly. We decide instead of you, or like shepherd – We push you, lambs, to make right decisions. You are to work for us, and consume, and not to think. Any property or title – you have as far as we allow you to have. The only thing you have eternally is duty.”
“Seizing people’s labour gains and savings” is what computer criminals are doing. Why should I hate the government for doing what criminals are doing? And once a criminal steals all my money, I can’t even go to him, kneel, and beg for help – I have to go to the government.
Sorry, but your diatribe actually makes me appreciate my government.
@Toad
1) Goverment and State is an institution initially established (as assumed) to protect rights and freedoms of fair people, NOT TO DO “what criminals are doing”.
From your message it is obvious that you count as ordinary thing, that it goes without saying and matter-of-course – that the government does exactly the same as criminals do, and has the right to act the same way.
And that is your whole right to appreciate your government for acting this way.
2) Criminals’ victims are accidental, several and detached, when the modern government victimise all the people TOTALLY (except “elitarians” themselves, who stand behind public government).
e.g. When a man gains a dollar, he immediatelly comes in debt to pay most of it as the governmental exaction of excise, VAT, sales tax, income tax, social tax, etc.
e.g. When a man spends a dollar, he pays the most of it NOT in favor of the provider of goods, but to the government as excises and provider’s taxes.
e.g. When the government issues money (like QE1-QE2-QE3) to credit some close confidants, it means that the government steals that money from the pocket of EVERY dollar-user, – because purchasing power of the presently owned reserves decreases (or the equivalent – the prices grow). And ALL dollar-users are victimised, all together who had nothing to do with derivative gambling, mortgage risks fraud, careless loans, etc.
3) Some might be happy being sheep governed by a shepherd. But keep in mind that sheep are breeded for shearing and later – for slaughter.
Keep appreciate your shepherd, hardly and heartly!
@Toad
@Harry Johnston
More explaination is in this my comment:
http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/05/reports-liberty-reserve-founder-arrested-site-shuttered/comment-page-5/#comment-184228
You know and I know that companies like LR are set up to profit from money laundering and computer crime. The smoke screen of the matreshka doll carver losing his life savings because he had it in LR is just plausible deniability. I am willing to bet my next paycheck that 90% of LR’s depositors and 99% of the funds deposited came from illegal sources.
I am truely sorry and sympathetic for anyone who lost honestly earned money because it was in LR. While I think it’s grossly foolish to make use of a firm that is set up to support crime as a storage place for your money, I can understand and even agree with its use as a place to avoid onerous taxation. But I wouldn’t have posted my offer to do what I can to help an honest person recover his money if I thought there was the slightest chance that anyone complaining about LR’s demise could actually produce this alleged innocent victim.
wow it is closed forever, i’ve fund on LR
I have tools done :
transfer wu . bank login
Contact me :
yahoo: tomkani
Email : tomkani@yahoo.com
Gmail : tomkani94@gmail.com
ICQ : 654881696
Yes, and when WU is back up you transfer the funds to your own account.
Ini namanya, menghancurkan keuangan internet.. Internet Rusuh.. dah..
It is a normal practice in any country protecting civilianrights that if a big organisation is found of malfunctioning then for the benefit of public the govt can acquit and run the same with correct ruling.LR can also be considered in that way by eliminating the crimes and manage its funds in legal way atleast to protect those hardearned deposits of innocent people.It was not their mistake to belive LR as legalcurency until shutdown.Because LR was given such preveilage by all authorities to be used anywhere as an ordinary currency.
If a broadviewd action is not taken it means accusing all and giving punishment for crime committed by someone
regardless of bunch of FBI and so on been deployed here in the name of wining and cover up real fact …. libertyreserve host has been blown out or maybe not , it’s irritating how this people think, must you rule over everything??? if you claim lr is been used for illegal activities then pls list the names of how many criminal you have caught using lr as money launder.. please we need their names, proof and get them arrested instead of the founder..each banks are vulnerable to fraudulent activities will you close a bank for such reason? pls give me a bank name that criminals are not having account with…. if your claim is true why did you take down only libertyreserve.com. how is perfectmoney still existing because i know criminals are also using it so is alertpay , paypal and so on which serve same purpose, the real fact is .. THIS PEOPLE HATE to let what they does not benefit from to exist or what they cannot CONTROL which make them so selfish but they always win because they have big mouth to speak and look perfect if perfectmoney and the rest is not blown out as well then you are all fools because they also serve same purpose.. hello to bunch of idiots. ..restore back liberyreserve i have $25 in my lr. lr is the best fast and secure. i still don’t trust the rest because they are the one operating it and that is what they want…IDIOTS
Hello. I can help you to get your money back for 30-40%. Write me on libertytrade@hush.com . Can help 3-5 people only
The follow up scammer promising to get someone’s money back for an upfront fee does not take long to surface, does it? Happens every time.
Get Latest Liberty Reserve News from BBC here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22680297
–
http://www.hyip-analyst.com
Hello,
already two hours again and again read over the article on the apparent failure of Liberty Reserve and still can not believe it. I’m from the former socialist countries and because we still exists the possibility to earn extra money nechodícího disability pensioner, I welcome the opportunity to earn extra income by taking advertisements and emails in your country. When I became acquainted with the conditions, anywhere there was no obstacle that I could not run. When examining the credibility of reported bank, on the contrary, Lib.Res. ranked as one of the best, if not the best.
I burst into tears when I found out that about half of accept emails and although featured earnings is greater, finally sent me one of the companies 800 USD on my account in LR. It was for me like a caress and a relief, I can redeem piece of loans. I have kept the money there, so I can upgrade your account with the email. And now I’ve lost them!Pleased to be able to redeem short loans are gone, they are gone and money! It’s sad,
because the money comes probably the most such “cobbler” who your earnings as well as I do and who have no other choice offered by the bank with which the ’email business’ together. For some time, perhaps we can wait and bust PayPal or Alertpay?!
The address of the master, who wrote the avoidance of taxes from the account, taxes, etc. …. Those people who offer extra income either receiving emails or clicking, do not give people the power to choose the bank.
These companies offer only a collaboration with LR, Paypal, Alertpay,
or Money Bookers, nothing would víc.Naopak officials should look at, how is it that someone has even an account in an Indian bank XOOM.
And I through some of your bank wanted to be prepared for taxes, they also do not have to worry about. We mediates
such remittances from abroad only one bank that
the state. And I assure you that the state takes a pretty big tax transfer from USA to us, out of every dollar and still i transfer to our měnu.Takže maybe they’ll come up to a quarter of earnings. A state my case is not addressed at all! Tell me to take my lawyer and the same will not solve anything and still prepare me for ten times the sum of his salary than earnings.
The gentleman who writes that you need to save for retirement early,
study, hospital and so on. I would like to sent word that is not always every architect of his own fortune. I’ve also been healthy, and I worked to fulfill their obligations to the family, the state, his health and his age (for us it is required to pay the health and social security taxes and yet tax and salary-state). But the big flood came and we lost everything. And to make matters worse, the difficulty in disposing of residues disaster I burst a blood vessel in the spinal cord and I was paralyzed. All I have left mortgages and loans that we had to take to build a new house, where we also had to make adjustments for wheelchair users.
Our work does not get a healthy person, let alone a cripple, so I just left the internet. And when I learn that I came also the little that I have for nearly three quarters of the year earned, do not be surprised that I’m excited!
To launder dirty money everywhere and just at online stores and banks, it can be most expected. Sadly, authorities have not long ago certain measures and do not control the business offering and clicking emails and then prepare the already miserable earnings for so long and time-consuming work such “entrepreneurs”
like me.
The translation program you used isn’t good, but I think I got the gist of your message.
I am sorry for your loss, but there is a reason people outside the US send us email and advertising – it’s illegal inside the US, especially if the spam is pornographic, illegal drug importing, or any of the countless other spam messages my accounts get every day. The Internet is a shared resource, not something that was designed so you can make money sending me spam.
I understand that your country takes 75% of your money when transfering in your profits. But again, that’s not my fault nor is it the fault of my country. Why aren’t you writing your politicians to demand a fairer tax rate for pensioners with internet businesses? The US is not at fault for everything that is wrong with the world, no matter how popular that view is.
As is always the case, if you expect me to respect your view, you have to respect mine. Computer criminals are the scum of the earth, lower than whale sh1t … even lower than politicians. Every one of them needs a life sentence in a Thai prison, unless you know of a worse prison to send them to. We need solutions that work for all of us, not just for one side.
Technically SPAM is legal provided people follow the guidelines set forth in the CAN-SPAM Act.
Technically? Technically, I shouldn’t have to explain to supposed adults why crime is bad and why a company with an international reputation for money laundering isn’t a good place to put your life savings. Technically I haven’t found a single spammer who will actually honor a can spam request, but instead have found that they put you on their “Suckers who actually confirm they read email and waste their time responding” list.
Technically you said you’d stop responding to me, because you felt I owed you an apology for assuming you were a crook. Technically you posted assumed information about “my” account, presumably for retaliation either by you or by hackers who have complained above. Technically I did the same thing you did, Googled my name, send PMs to everyone I could, and so far have garnered 5 responses from people thanking me for informing them that they might be targets on an attack … including two with my last name. (And technically or not, I can tell you that was a big surprise.)
Technically I have asked over and over if anyone whining about their inconvenience even understands how people feel who’s life savings were cleaned out by a hacker. Not a single response. So technically I no longer give a damn about anyone, excepting of course that I remain slightly sympathetic to those people who did lose honestly earned money. Links in some of the above messages contain information about how you can get your money back, and if that’s too much trouble, well that’s also not my fault.
So finally, Technically, I’m going to assign all future notifications of this thread to my trashcan, unread. I’m no longer interested in selfish and self-centered justification and whining.
See, this is what I do not get. Why would you assume I would ‘retaliate’ when I thought “we were just having a conversation as adults”? That would be assuming I’d retaliate in the first place, thus we are back to you calling me a criminal.
I do not spam by the way. Nor would I ‘retaliate’ (what the hell). I did a first page google search of the name you use to post on here, and if you think anybody else could not do the same thing then you are failing to grasp that you made my point: privacy is important, anonymity is important, and some people enjoy it. If you do not, you are free to linkedin, facebook, vkontakte, and use the same name all over every interest you have online. Why would I stop you?
And why would you assume that nobody else can use a search engine (I did lie about one thing: I didn’t do a quick Google, I used a search engine that does not violate my privacy and track my interests, but ‘googling’ is such a part of the vocabulary now, isn’t it? Part of the problem, right there — you and the government and a lot of other people here keep insisting there is only one way to do things and everybody must do things your way. We are not stopping you from Paypal. Why should you have any say how anonymous people choose to be *until they cash money in or out* upon which people have to verify with exchangers for any notable sum — often with sms verification as well).
I never denied that you are free to your rules in your house. My question is why am I not entitled to my rules in my house, and why are other people not entitled to their rules in their houses, unless you say so? We are not all out to get you. Some of us are just trying to live our lives. And why should we have to identify ourselves to your country to begin with if we aren’t transacting business there, aren’t keeping money there, and aren’t from there?
There is a reason most banks will not open accounts for Americans, even in “perfectly legitimate” European countries that don’t even have banking secrecy laws: It is because by doing so they open themselves up to letting the US into all of their paperwork, which does not just mean only the US’s. Think about this. Would you want strangers looking at what you do all the time? You were so afraid of a websearch that you *WARNED PEOPLE* about a COMPUTER PROGRAMMER who doesn’t even break the law. What does this say about you? It says you are afraid. And then that tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy because everybody else gets angry that you are treating them badly. Since you like truisms so much “you reap what you sow” too. And no that is not a threat. It is a possible explanation for you to think about. Do not confuse the chicken for the eggs.
If you start with erroneous data, you will almost certainly come to erroneous conclusions every single time.
As to the first commenter, bordello’s are legal in Costa Rica .
What a knee jerk….
hsbc white money of cartel, they don’t get caught
my friend before i answer you, let me remind you that you will need to blindfold the whole world when next you want to manipulate threads, i posted as lightminds 2 mins after at the same minute two different idiotus.@ron the second name with comment was the one they removed… they replied my comments with two different complicating comments but it was removed am not surprised… henceforth comments are been truncated…truth can be so obvious like electric shocks.. just tell me when you will decide to have lr restored without been compromised. just find the criminal underground if you have proof enough and allow lr to do business.that is my world.
The works of the “DEVIL” like paypal, visa and the rest who have failed to tap into the underworld economy, turn around and use their influence to stir up a shit storm for the excelling companies like LR. It wont be long before they pounce on PerfectMoney & BitCoin. Remember E-Gold guys ? remember how the U-ASS.A Justice Department F**ked it up? hence the Emergence & strength of LR… i do think things of the sort shall always continue as long as those big muscle corporate companies “Visa & Papal” also the U-ASS.A , remain insecure.
Being scared of a good thing…..those F^&$*cks
Hm having commenting problems. Hopefully my reply to Toad will go through as it will not let me re-post.
I wanted to make an analogy also for people who are asking ‘why keep money in LR?’
You might want to think of it like an American checking account or a European current account: You do not keep all of your money there, most likely, but you probably move what you need there to pay your bills from for example your main or savings account. If you’re an individual you may have a few thousands of dollars expenses a month you pay with this account. If you’re a business you may have tens of thousands of dollars a month you keep in this account. I would probably never use LR as a long term solution for any very large quantity of money at any one time but I would generally assume that I can keep it there for a few months at a time if need be because money moves in and out (legitimately, via an authenticated account with a trusted exchanger).
Some people only make enough to live month to month or week to week or day to day, so they do not have a savings account, only this one account. If this had happened a month from now I most likely would not have had nearly as much money in there as I did because I would have most likely paid my employees salaries and hosting charges by then, and moved the remainder to my perfectly legitimate bank account(s) as I saw fit. I would still be making these arguments, even if I had not lost so much money, because there is a matter of principle involved here that goes beyond ‘principle’ in the monetary sense.
My son in Australia has lost $2800 trying to buy a profit system from Quantum Organization in New York. They said he needed to transfer payment via this Liberty Reserve group. Why didn’t they just do Visa or Direct deposit as we do in Australia? I don’t think very highly of the Quantum group to suggest this type of payment – they seem to be a bit “suss” themselves – not impressed
in many media almost report the news is look so tendentious with the arrested and make point LibertyReserve is source illegal Activity Wallet just done a little human doing this, They (-Media-) do not critics and give valuation about how authorities in this case (-New York Police department-) when handling this case, How come when you arresting individual (-owner-) and then shut down the business, just imagine if this happened in Paypal or another same business, is this ridiculous ??
what do you think about that?
as Information one big exchanger in my place suffered total loss more 312.500$
it just one known by report in our biggest social media forum and have not yet report in another, do not known for individual investor who invest from secondary marketing which advertise by person to person interaction in forum and of course another business services like VCC,amazon or ebay payment , pulse voucher and more.
LibertyReserve as companies cannot be blamed if the main case is happened to personal problem with owner, but how come U.S authority treat this so unfairly.
And followed sounding tendency by media make simplification if all people, all money in LR is doing illegal activity “what a same”.
I agree with your view that affence committed by owner of the site levied penalty on its users who are completely not connected by anyway of the crime. This action should not be a model for controlloing cybercrimes.
Now is there any media report news “U.S authority Way handling and treat LR as company” ????
hope journalists can see from the victimize people point of view, and give appraisal the way U.S authority treat LR company.
Of all the discussions both justifying and condemning the shuttering, a fact seems to be arising that complete
transparency is the need of the hour as regards the govt and site admininistration.At this stage it will not make benefit to lawenforcement and victims to argue without fully analysed report which require longtime operation report of the site and its user comments
yes you all right, as long people victimized as now just can wait with little worried hope, some of confuse many depressed what’s the truly going on?
too many bias give opinion and look like there, of course they want it back like start it was, they do not care about big sounding money laundry caused, just because what the relevancies with them, their doing good business, earning payment from good thing from working online.
As you well know the US are now controlling all the world’s valuable resources (oil, gold, etc.) and until those jerks go down the poverty of the globe will never stop. If you read again the news article it says ‘U.S. prosecutors based in New York asked Costa Rican officials to begin investigating Budovsky and his companies’ Why did they give a shit about LR because the US citizens were not using LR almost at all. Because the US is exactly like a parazite living by sucking all the economies of the world dry. Anyone who would argue with me about that I have 1000 things to say that will demonstrate that. If you ask the normal bloke on the street about their militars they will say they are angels fighting for the liberty of other countries when in fact they are criminals who only want the oil or any valuable resource. I only want the US to go down in this moment for sticking their nose in everyone’s business and they will go down trust me, they will go down harder than the romans…
I operate a legal business in Europe and accept Liberty Reserve as a means of payment simply because the mass of my clients requested it for ease of payment.
The way this entire incident has happened is disgusting. Now the question is, in my tax return, do I put this lost income as funds as “Stolen funds by the US Government”?
I am a busy individual. I don’t have time to check whether or not Liberty Reserve was operating a legal business. It seemed legitimate, I didn’t get any complaints about offering it as a payment method and that was enough to satisfy me.
If greed wasn’t an issue, Liberty Reserve would have been made to become compliant with money laundering laws. However, since there were millions that LR were holding, I can only assume the greedy politicians would rather have that in their pocket.
Even in this economic crisis, the US Government can still justify stealing millions of dollars which never had anything to do with them in the first place.
I have to say a big “THANK YOU” to the people who have effectively STOLEN the funds that my legal business had sat in the account. I transfer money out every month so it was “only around 4 grand”. Well thank you very much indeed.
your remarks well understood.It’s what just putting hand in allothers pocket for finding the money misusedby someone.As for public LR site is only transport veichle between their bank accounts they don’t know nothing more.Actual drivers are the exchangers and they should be more alertive and the govt may prompt regulatons for them instead of shuttering site.
I can only hope they will return the funds. It is very unethical for funds to be seized from legitimate businesses like this.
.Let us all believe the same. Because victimising innocents will not justify legal action and won’t persist.It will not make real punishment to crimes and in any law the basic concept is acquit should not be punished
Actually, perhaps the US Government should seize all cash in the world too, as it too is untraceable.
Well good luck shutting bitcoin down. If you can understand it that is.
plz open liberty reserve site..plz plz……………….
1) 리버티리저브 웹사이트의 갑작스런 폐쇄는 세계의 많은 사람들을 당황하게 하고 있다.
2) 보도와 같은 불법적인 행위가 수 년 전부터 있었다면 여러 통로를 통하여 세계의 각 이용자들이 알게 했어야 할 것이다.
3) 상당한 기간동안 사이버 전자금융거래의 모델처럼 사용되어 왔던 사이트가 보도된 바와같은 금융범죄의 온상이었다는 것이 황당할 따름이다.
4) 사이트의 폐쇄가 아닌 사이트의 적법한 제도권으로의 안착을 통한 전 세계의 선량한 전자금융 이용자의 보호에 우선적인 관점을 두고 수사 등을 진행해야 할 일이다.
5) 사이트의 폐쇄는 범죄자가 범죄를 종결짓는 또 다른 범죄의 수단이다. 이를 수사당국이 범죄자를 돕는 역할을 하고 있지 않는지 다른 각도에서 검토하여야 될 사안이다. 세계인의글로벌투자 등 경제활동의 보호에 국제적 보호대책이 필요하다.
The power that resurrected Our Lord Jesus will surely bring Our Liberty Reserve to life again. Either US Govt like it or not.
No business is clean in their eyes as long as it is not from USA.
The most amazing thing of all these is that their innocent citizen has been blindfolded and kept away from the reality in outside world by this same entity called US Govt.
America is a good place but things begin to get worst when their govt thought they have right over all nations.
take a look at their fiscal cliff palaver in December /Jan
Most of their citizen have never been to any neighboring state in the US not to talk of other Country. So how will they know the difference btw Legal and illegal? how will they feel what others are feeling? An iroko tree that covers other trees from sunlight will soon be attracted to those that will cut it as Logs of wood as it is growing more wing.
Goliath, Pharaoh,Nebuchadnezzar, Samson e.t.c are lessons for us.
Exactly how do you figure that most Americas have never been to a neighboring state? I would like to see where you are getting this impression. This is a baseless statement and discredits your ill prepared attempt to turn a seizure of suspected illegal trade into a religion filled rant about the “Evil US Empire”. laughable. The US has many problems, but non are highlighted by your incoherent ramblings.